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"Getting it Done" Absurdity on Alabama Fireground
Video begs us to ask why isn't the message getting out and why is this thought to be okay in the first place?
There’s little information on this fire but that is not relevant. It doesn’t take a Blue Card certification, Executive Fire Officer conferment or having been accepted to present at FDIC 2013 to see what is wrong. It also doesn’t take any of those to share what should properly be done.
Or does it? Despite the ease we can see and discuss this particular fire, we should be judicious enough to realize that not every fire department and firefighter is hooked up to the web. If they are, then we need to equally judicious to know that information overload can cause even the best of training information to go unnoticed by some firefighters and fire departments.
This spring and summer when FireRescue Magazine/FirefighterNation carried the news that World Trade Center related cancers may or may not be eligible for coverage, many expressed with incredulousness that it even had to be debated by scientists. Still officially unresolved the need for coverage is understandable, as well as the implications, given the historic scope of the event.
But this is a trailer fire. What the hell are we doing believing that it’s okay to take a feed fighting a trailer fire, and without any PPE as well? It is 2012 and despite all the information from the various popular websites, trade shows and etcetera the message evidently is not reaching everyone.
In 2010 NIOSH, the United States Fire Administration and the National Cancer Institute began a long-term study of cancer among firefighters. The purpose is to see if firefighters have a higher risk of cancer than other occupations. While the data is collected one can look at the Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine for impressive data.
“At the fire scene, firefighters are potentially exposed to various mixtures of particulates, gases, mists, fumes of an organic and/or inorganic nature, and the resultant pyrolysis products. Specific potential exposures include metals such as lead, antimony, cadmium, uranium, chemical substances, including acrolein, benzene, methylene chloride, polyaromatic hydrocarbons, perchlorethylene, toluene, trichloroethylene, trichlorophenol, xylene, formaldehydes, minerals such as asbestos, crystalline, and noncrystalline silica, silicates, and various gases that may have acute, toxic effects.”
If that doesn’t spell cancer then I don’t know what does.
Regardless of how much stock you place in science, the fact is, smoke isn’t good for you.
Wear your PPE. Go on air when you’re in the smoke.
Now, for the harder part; what makes a guy like this guy in the video believe that what he is doing is okay?
Related
Firefighter Cancer Support Network
Study of Cancer among United States Firefighters, NIOSH
Cancer Risk Among Firefighters: A Review and Meta-analysis of 32 St..., Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine
IAFF Cancer Study Newsletter, Issue 1, Bill Carey, Backstep
Ray’s Story, Bill Carey, Backstep
Making it To and Through Retirement, Dave LeBlanc, Backstep
Bill Carey is the daily news and blog manager for Elsevier Public Safety (FireRescue Magazine/Firefighter Nation, JEMS and LawOfficer sites.) Bill also manages the FireEMSBlogs.com network and is a former volunteer lieutenant with the Hyattsville Volunteer Fire Department in Prince George's County, Maryland.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Saw this on Backstep FF and the comments of Ron Ayotte, Kali, etc and I agree with their sentiment.
There really are no excuses, nor justification for such actions. This is idiotic and blatantly stupid to allow and even consider doing. You have guys geared up, if you aren't geared up....get off the damn fireground damn morons. And I truly do not care if my comments offend someone, there is no reason to do this.
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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hahahaa.....1/2 way through the vid, the guy wearing the FF costume comes and hugs the guy holding the hose.
Perfect example of a volunteer social club.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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When you're divinely directed, chosen and anointed by a particular god or goddess you have no need for protective measures (we don't need no stinkin' PPE). Also, this is what happens when your genetic pool is inches deep and muddied by your siblings. I hope I'm not being too harsh.
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Just have to say that, now I have stopped laughing from your comment, I believe it may have a few jagged edges, but still gets where it needed to go.
...muddied by siblings.....too funny.
Makes me wonder, though, how many other "fire departments" fallow this procedure, and how often. Truly, a scary thought.
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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There is not just one guy either, there is a second guy on the end of the trailer shooting towards the guy in front, opposing handlines. The guy on the end is reaching into the building with the nozzle too exposing himself to the heat and flame as well as smoke.
This is just wrong on all levels. In our department we dont even let you pack up if you have facial hair and we are pretty strict with PPE, almost always having a safety officer posted to watch and make sure all are wearing it.
Another severe blow to those of us volunteers that take training and safety seriously.......
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Permalink Reply by Frank David Harrisson Sr. on
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You boys and girls of the latter day have not a clue! What went on 50 or a hundred yeats ago still goes on today, you have a fire, go pour water on it. Nothing has changed particularly in the deep rural volunteer fire companies. We are invincible and we get the job done, get that? I have to laugh at all y'all in the big cities and wealthy suburbs with allof that modern equipment, special training, and the latest in PPE's. Folks, our equipment are usually hand downs or they are at least 20 years old. Some of us have PPE's and a lot of us do not. But when Hell breaks loose we will match any of y'all. Funny thing here, I am 78 Yaers old and still kicking and no cancer. My firefighting days started in 1950 and I fininshed up and retired in 2010. Those folks in Alabama are lucky to have folks who volunteer will stick their necks out for them.
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Permalink Reply by Bob Bennett on
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ARE YOU KIDDING ME. WHO THE HELL WAS IN CHARGE? HE SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THE DEPARTMENT FOR LETTING THIS HAPPEN. AND THE CHIEF SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIS ACTION. AND YOU WONDER WHY FIREFIGHTERS ARE GETTING KILLED. COMPLET STUPIDITY.
AND WHERES THE SAFETY OFFICER OR WAS THAT HIM.
UNREAL.
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You sir have not a clue! Takumsa said "Never critizise another unless you have walked a mile in his shoes." As I said above until you have worked under the same conditions of that fire company do not critisize. The chief of that fire company was probably not there. The firefighter with the hose was probably the first one there. Fire companies in deep rural areas do not have the time to go through the rigamarole you go through. Yet they get the job done just like they have always got the job done for the passed 200 years. You modern day folks have a mindset that everyone has the same resources and equipment that you do. Well Sir they do not and they sill get the job done.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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You have to understand the fires are different. I work in a large city that's the 8th busiest fire department in the nation. Yea, we all have gear, but we go to A LOT more fires than rural areas. Some of these rural areas respond to 100 runs or less each year. We go to about 500 each day. That includes at least one fire each day usually. We also make entry and an aggressive interior attack on probably 95% of our fires. So we need the gear. We save a lot more people and property with our interior attacks and you can't even try to say you'd be in the same fires without gear. It would be impossible to withstand the heat.
So yes, we do have turnout gear in my large city, but we are a completely different type of fire department that does a completely different type of job. Sorry to say but I wouldn't say that your firefighting would match what we do at all. I respect what you do but you have to understand it's not the same job at all.
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Frank,
"We are invincible and we get the job done, get that?" Vollies account for nearly 60% of ALL LODDs. So I'm a guessin' y'all ain't as invincible as you're a thinin. Get that?
"I have to laugh at all y'all in the big cities and wealthy suburbs with allof that modern equipment, special training, and the latest in PPE's." Yeah, nothing more shameful than a community that actually supports their fire department with silly nonsense like new apparatus that starts, pumpers, gets you there and back safely for the crew and...oh yeah, those pesky taxpayers on the street too. Ya jes can't run em over no more. And special training, that's just a damn extravagance, in it? Get that?
"...our equipment are usually hand downs or they are at least 20 years old." I'm confused, why bother to use any equipment at all, especially 'hand downs', sounds like charity to me, thought you might be above that hand out nonsense. Get that?
"But when Hell breaks loose we will match any of y'all." Not sure how you can do that, I mean, we'll be inside with our brandy new turn out gear, fancy ass Scott air packs, wizardy Thermal Imaging Cameras, whiz bang walkie talkies, kick ass pumpers and ladder trucks, knockin' down the 'beast' while y'all are waitin' on a driver, trying to find the address and scrounging up garden hoses. Get that?
"Those folks in Alabama are lucky to have folks who volunteer will stick their necks out for them." Technically, standing outside in street clothes and shooting water into a trailer hardly qualifies as sticking one's neck out. Unless you count the ride over in cousin Ed's pick em up cum fire truck.
Basically, Frank, I can't for the world understand how you can make the ridiculous statements you did. You insult everyone that is fortunate enough to have been properly trained, equipped, funded and supported, and who, while still doing the job, take every effort to do so as safely as possible, including (which I suspect you scoff at as well) wearing seat belts in the apparatus.
And you missed the point of the discussion, why are there people on the line with no PPE while you have at least ONE person there with PPE? I'm thinking that the guys on the line have the same attitude as you, PPE is for wusses.
As for you not having cancer, congratulations, you dodged that particular bullet. You probably think all the brothers that die every year from a variety of cancers, not to mention those that worked ground zero, are all just lolly gaggers. Fortunately as you old timers 'move on' younger people move up that don't fear technology, are able to understand it and recognize the value of scientific studies that advance fire science.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Instant Classic^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nice one Jack.
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As I said above until you have worked under the same conditions of that fire company do not critisize
Bullshit. This is a classic example of a video begging to be criticized, this is indefensible and inexcusable.
The chief of that fire company was probably not there
Doesn't matter, there is always someone who is in charge (or should be) of an incident. Such moronic operations as seen here are a reflection of the dept from the chief on down. And see Frank, when and if there was an injury or worse, guess who is looked at? The chief, regardless if he was present or not.
Fire companies in deep rural areas do not have the time to go through the rigamarole you go through
Bullshit. YEs they do, if they were true firefighters and true professionals they would. Are you thus saying rural firefighters are not real firefighters???
Yet they get the job done just like they have always got the job done for the passed 200 years
And continue to save the foundation, right?
You modern day folks have a mindset that everyone has the same resources and equipment that you do. Well Sir they do not and they sill get the job done.
No. It is understandable there are limitations for depts, but the key is to recognize those limitations and act accordingly as opposed to the stupid actions we see here and what you are advocating. Quite simply Frank, there are FFs in the video who are geared up, there is no reason for the clowns without gear to continue their operation. Their actions are inexcusable and your defense of them is pawltry and outdated.
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