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Five Minutes in the Street: Mutual Aid for a Reported Kitchen Fire
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The engine company officer indicates she is leading off with a 1-3/4 inch attack line. She has a three (3) staffed attack team heading into the first floor. The pump operator (engineer/chauffer) is at the pump panel. They picked up a hydrant on the way in.
You arrive as the: Incident Commander, Second-due Engine or first-due truck company.
Select one of the positions and provide your reply -based on your assignment and position;
Based upon your selected assignment:
Provide a radio description of what you see by adding to the initial transmission of the 1st due Engine, or provide a more detailed risk profile as the incident commander.
What’s the building and structure’s risk profile, how do you think fire will behave, travel affect the structure?
Is there anything unique about this structure? Its occupancy, size, features, fire location, risk to firefighters etc?
What are your projected resource needs in terms of manpower and equipment? What do you expect to have responding to this alarm?
As the mutual aid resource, is there anything special that you need to know, consider or take into consideration at this alarm?
What special hazards are present in this type of building and occupancy?
What’s your size-up and risk profile telling you so far?
OK, we’re “burning” up too much time here…., let’s get to work on this job…
BTW; It's a Saturday afternoon.
The engine company officer indicates she is leading off with a 1-3/4 inch attack line. She has a three (3) staffed attack team heading into the first floor. The pump operator (engineer/chauffer) is at the pump panel. They picked up a hydrant on the way in.
You arrive as the: Incident Commander, Second-due Engine or first-due truck company.
Select one of the positions and provide your reply -based on your assignment and position;
Based upon your selected assignment:
Provide a radio description of what you see by adding to the initial transmission of the 1st due Engine, or provide a more detailed risk profile as the incident commander.
What’s the building and structure’s risk profile, how do you think fire will behave, travel affect the structure?
Is there anything unique about this structure? Its occupancy, size, features, fire location, risk to firefighters etc?
What are your projected resource needs in terms of manpower and equipment? What do you expect to have responding to this alarm?
As the mutual aid resource, is there anything special that you need to know, consider or take into consideration at this alarm?
What special hazards are present in this type of building and occupancy?
What’s your size-up and risk profile telling you so far?
OK, we’re “burning” up too much time here…., let’s get to work on this job…
BTW; It's a Saturday afternoon.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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Based upon your selected assignment:
Provide a radio description of what you see by adding to the initial transmission of the 1st due Engine, or provide a more detailed risk profile as the incident commander.
Since I am a Deputy Chief, I'll play incident commander
Fire a=Alarm from Car 2... Car 2 on scene with a 2 and half story wood frame two family home, balloon frame construction, heavy fire from the Bravo side with extension to the attic space. Strike the second alarm.
What’s the building and structure’s risk profile, how do you think fire will behave, travel affect the structure?
It is a balloon frame, the fire is already into the attic space as seen in photo 2, note the smoke puffing and discoloration of the asphalt shingles
Is there anything unique about this structure? Its occupancy, size, features, fire location, risk to firefighters etc?
It is a 2 family, car in the driveway, so there is the probablity of someone home and possibly trapped. The fire was reported in the kitchen... the home may have natural gas service, and in these older homes, the meters are located in the basement. Get the electric company in to kill the power at the pole, and the gas company to shut the gas off in the street.
Risk to firefighters: the fire is already in the walls and attic area. There is a possibility of "lean to" floor collapse on the Bravo side.
What are your projected resource needs in terms of manpower and equipment? What do you expect to have responding to this alarm?
Due to the size and construction, I would request a second alarm. Engine companies to go to the second floor and attic space, the 1st due crew attacking the fire. The basement will also have to be checked for flaming debris . The first alarm in my community is 2 engines, 1 ladder, 1 rescue. A second would bring in an additional 2 engines and an additional ladder company.
As the mutual aid resource, is there anything special that you need to know, consider or take into consideration at this alarm?
What special hazards are present in this type of building and occupancy?
What’s your size-up and risk profile telling you so far?
The IC will need to know the ETA of the incoming companies and base his decisions on that. If there is but one engine company and the "rest of the cavalry" won't arrive for another 10 minutes or so due to travel amd traffic, a quick primary search with the protection of the hoseline to protect the stairs then a defensive attack may be required.
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Permalink Reply by Greg Johnson on
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Not alot of time on the job but I will give it a shot..
Dispatch we have a 2 story wood ballon frame construction, occupancy unknown, 2 engines, 2 ladders, rescue, ambulance x 2,hydro, command is going mobile for a 360.
Concerns are: due to the age of the building, has it been renovated, how many occupants, how many apartments, is this a kitchen fire or an extension from the basement.
Second in engine will take a seperate hydrant for a dual water source and lead in a backup attack line, rescue on primary search, first in ladder to check attic roof for extension, second ladder will ladder building and is RIT.
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Permalink Reply by rfdjumper on
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Since I don't know what the initial alarm would consist of I'm going with a 3 and 2, with a fourth engine as safety company. I'd attach 1 man to handle ventilation of the first floor, in conjunction with the initial fire attack team. I'd want to get some people up into the 2nd floor unit. to check for fire spread, and perform a search of the 2nd and 3rd floors. I'd also like to get someone in that basement if possible to check for fire and control the utilities.
Fire was visible in the 1st floor kitchen, next place it would be going would be the 2nd floor kitchen directly above. I'd advise 2nd due ladder to start laddering 2nd floor and Horizontally venting in conjuction with the 2nd due fire attack line. Third due engine I'd have as a backup line protecting the interior stairs.
I would hope that the IC would bring just a little more help because there is going to be a lot of pulling walls and ceilings to make sure this fire is out and stays out.
I would also wish that he hit the hydrant on State Rd and brought it through the parking lot to the 2nd due engine in the "D" side parking lot.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Why would I be the incident commander when responding mutual aid?
Why did she commit 3 interior without an incident commander on an IDLH fire without a report of subjects trapped? Where is the concern for the firefighters initial safety with 2 in 2 out rule / or the establishment of formal command when formulating the initial arrival of her IAP?
The scenario would not play out as you have described in my response district...
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Special hazard include:
Unknown construction. Stair cases that go no where, voids caused by renovation. Separate electrical panels in each unit. Caged storage in the basement
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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on
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These questions prompt us to further additonal questions...
If this is a vol. dept., there may not be an assigned IC responding on the box, coupled with the failure of the 1st due Engine to assume command...provides for the "mutal" to take the IC assignment...
The issue with her going in without 2/2 speaks for itself...the CO didnt follow SOP, didn't know better (training/experience), acting CO, SR. FF, just got "voted in last night", overly excited and didn't think....there are a lot of reasons why things like this happen in the real world... questions for us to ponder..
Unfortunately scenarios like this do happen .....in so many other towns around the county..every day
Thats why we need to help identify possible failure modes, point out weakness and poor strategic and tactical descision-making and provide the insights and training, so as not to make these types of mission critical mistakes...
FETC, You know the issues on the fireground, you've also seen the kind of mistakes and operational errors we're talking about here....thanks for bringing the questions right out front, hope we can generate some dialog...thanks brother.
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View Larger Map
FFN CSI on the case.
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/01/two_families_displaced_by_f...l
3400 block of Tuxedo Ave, Cleveland, Ohio
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Permalink Reply by John on
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My first would be to announce "on scene" and let dispatch know what we have and strike out additional alarms, and then take command, contact interior for thier interior size up, while having my crew pulling a second line as well as ladders for secondary egress if they somehow got upstairs, I would be doing a 360 of the building as well and letting interior know of my findings, all of this within the first few minutes on scene. With additional resources and depending on the interior I would send another crew in through the back if conditions were safe, if not, I would be telling the crews to vacate, and switch to defensive mode, and also cordinating ventilation at same time.
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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I tried Chris, truly I tried! There are just too many differences in type of structure, type of construction, type of occupancy, methods of opperation for me. I'll just read read what others post :)
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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With the car in the driveway and no one outside telling you that everyone made it out, you're in search and rescue mode until you either find and rescue everyone or until the fire gets so bad that it's not survivable and you go defensive. Two-in, Two-out doesn't apply at this point.
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Chris,
I'm late on this one - that's what a weekend at a Salka-Lasky seminar will do for you. :-)
Building profile: Dimensional lumber, probably stick-built, possibly balloon-frame walls.
It's older, so we can assume that it is fairly solid at this point unless it's obviously unkempt.
If that's the case, we need to be cautious if we suspect lots of internal rot, termite-eaten walls and floors, etc.
There's a bricked basement or semi-basement with a very small amount of light smoke on Side B.
Fire profile: This is a flashed over room and contents at this point, with medium smoke spreading both horizontally and vertically.
Smoke profile: Other than the obvious heavy autoventing from the fire room, the smoke is as follows;
Color - Light to medium gray, indicating interior finish fire with medium heat. Density - medium Volume - medium Velocity - medium Overall indicators - the interior should be tenable with resources, ventilation, and adequate water power getting here soon.
RECEO-VS Rundown:
Rescue (Life Safety) - Engine 1 should be engaged in Search to the Fire. If they don't find any victims on the way in, they go to the seat of the fire, extinguishing any fire they find on the way in. If Engine 2 and Truck 1 get there together, Truck 1's officer and irons take a search rope, tools, and a water can and search Division 1. Truck 1's driver and tiller ladder the Side A porch with a 24-foot extension, then enter through the front door and search Division 2. They take tools, search rope, and a TIC. If there's only one TIC available, Truck 1's driver and tiller get it, since they're searching above the fire.
Exposures - Engine 1 takes care of the interior horizontal exposures in the living spaces on the way in. Engine 2 (four firefighters) is my company. I establish Command. My nozzle and hydrant firefighters stretch a second line and take Division 2 to extinguish any vertical extension.
Confinement - Engine 1 confines by establishing a cut-off point and protecting the interior stairs on the way in, and completes it by extinguishing the main body of fire.
Extinguishment - Engine 1 does most of this, Engine 2 gets anything on Division 2.
Overhaul - later
Ventilation - Fire room autovented. Engine 2 driver acts as Outside Vent and vents as necessary. Side B gets his first attention.
Salvage - later.
Utilities are a problem with the meters below the fire window.
Command Considerations:
Resources - Three additional engines, an additional truck, and continue the All Hands Rescue, Medic, RIT Truck, and three additional chiefs.
Strategy - I need to search the other two apartments - this structure has been cut up into a multiple residency. The three electric meters are the hint. I need to complete a 360 and find any additional hazards. Implement the accountability system.
Rescue 1, supported by Engine 3, finds the access to and searches the 2nd apartment. Truck 2, supported by Engine 4, finds the access to and searches the 3rd apartment. Engine 5 forces the garage door and secures it, checks for extension, and secures any hazards found. RIT (Truck 3) sets up on Side A. Medic 1 sets up the Medical/Rehab group and prepares for any victims. Chief 2 is assigned to Safety, Chief 3 is assigned to Division C, and Chief 3 is assigned to Staging. We need police for crowd control, traffic control, and checking the neighbors' homes for anyone that may have self-rescued. Utility companies for electric, gas, water, and sewer.
We need to think about Hazmat depending on what we find in the garage and if the fire got too it or not.
One other quirk about this is that we can't tell if the fire window was open or closed. If it was open when the fire flashed, that tells me that we have an incipient fuel-controlled fire that quickly flashed and became ventilation-controlled. If the window was open, WHY? It's the dead of winter and there is snow on the roof. Did the occupants have a carbon monoxide problem or something similar prior to the fire? If so, we may have several victims, including in the other apartments. That means a 3rd alarm, several more medic units, maybe the coroner. It also means detailed secondary searches, calling for more TICs if we don't have at least 4 there in the first two alarms, and a much larger investigation problem than might originally have seemed likely.
If we think we have a CO problem, we need to do aggressively ventilate either with PPV as soon as the main fire is knocked or with global horizontal window venting. We may be able to save victims with fresh air just by cleaning out some Division 2 windows from the ground floor - Engine 2's driver can do that with a single pike pole.
We also need to check the basement to see if someone was cooking meth - bad smells from a meth cook in a basement apartment might be the reason for the open window at the fire room.
SCBA will be mandatory for overhaul and the probable extension to the attic. Atmospheric monitoring is essential, even after the fire is knocked and ventilation is in progress.
We need the Rehab bus and a canteen unit on this one - we'll be here for a while.
We also need a weather report. If we have hydrant problems, we might need the hydrant thawing unit.
Note that the semi-tropical island guy knows what a hydrant thawing unit is. That's from hanging out with you New York guys at conferences and seminars. :-)
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