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Experience vs Training.
Experience vs Training.
So i have heard here and there people think i am anti-experience. That is not the case at all. However i don't think we should pat a person with 20 years on the back as say you shouldn't have to train. What does that get you???? someone who knows how to fight fire for the last 20 years. What about a person to fight fire today?? or better yet ready to fight fire tomorrow?? i will give you experience goes a very long way. I am pushing the 20 year mark myself. We run with departments that are busy running what 150 to 190 calls a year?? not counting departments that run EMS. How many are actual structure fires? So of that how many are bs calls? (i believe there is no bs call. People called because they wanted help). By the time it all breaks down you figure truly most departments in the county run maybe 5 good working structure fires a year. So even if you make all of them in the 20 years that gives you 100 structures. Of those how many are new constructions. How many of those have had reason for RIT or rescue??? how many auto extraction do you run??? but your right with 20 years of running calls why on earth would anyone have to train. I have heard some say i got my 36 hour card years ago why should i have to do more.. WTF are you kidding me. And you wonder why i say i would take 10 guys with 5 years in that want to learn that want to be active than 20 guys with 20 years bragging i have 20 years in. there are thing you can only get threw doing the job. Most around here will only get many of these lesson threw training. If you not going to train. If you not going to learn if you just going to beat your chest talking how you know what your going as this is how you have always done it then do us all a favor... GET THE F*CK OUT before you kill someone.
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doing the job the way we always have will get you NO WHERE. 18 hours thats it. If you cant take 18 hours out for training. That means you have looked at your trucks. Your gear your tools. We do not run the calls in this county (exception of a few) that will keep you fresh on your trucks. Still doesn't get you anywhere today in a new houses and cars. If you cant keep up with the times. If you cant learn the new ways of how things are what do you have with 20 years.
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if you are banking off experience the only thing you have is 20 years of how things use to be...
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learn to be safe. Learn to work in the new age of building construction and car technologies. Learn the new rescue techniques. Be your brothers keeper..
So i have heard here and there people think i am anti-experience. That is not the case at all. However i don't think we should pat a person with 20 years on the back as say you shouldn't have to train. What does that get you???? someone who knows how to fight fire for the last 20 years. What about a person to fight fire today?? or better yet ready to fight fire tomorrow?? i will give you experience goes a very long way. I am pushing the 20 year mark myself. We run with departments that are busy running what 150 to 190 calls a year?? not counting departments that run EMS. How many are actual structure fires? So of that how many are bs calls? (i believe there is no bs call. People called because they wanted help). By the time it all breaks down you figure truly most departments in the county run maybe 5 good working structure fires a year. So even if you make all of them in the 20 years that gives you 100 structures. Of those how many are new constructions. How many of those have had reason for RIT or rescue??? how many auto extraction do you run??? but your right with 20 years of running calls why on earth would anyone have to train. I have heard some say i got my 36 hour card years ago why should i have to do more.. WTF are you kidding me. And you wonder why i say i would take 10 guys with 5 years in that want to learn that want to be active than 20 guys with 20 years bragging i have 20 years in. there are thing you can only get threw doing the job. Most around here will only get many of these lesson threw training. If you not going to train. If you not going to learn if you just going to beat your chest talking how you know what your going as this is how you have always done it then do us all a favor... GET THE F*CK OUT before you kill someone.
.
doing the job the way we always have will get you NO WHERE. 18 hours thats it. If you cant take 18 hours out for training. That means you have looked at your trucks. Your gear your tools. We do not run the calls in this county (exception of a few) that will keep you fresh on your trucks. Still doesn't get you anywhere today in a new houses and cars. If you cant keep up with the times. If you cant learn the new ways of how things are what do you have with 20 years.
.
if you are banking off experience the only thing you have is 20 years of how things use to be...
.
learn to be safe. Learn to work in the new age of building construction and car technologies. Learn the new rescue techniques. Be your brothers keeper..
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tim Wood on
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Its nice to know we are all in the same boat. There is more of this around then most people will admit. Keep up the fight bro i love it when you get on a good rant.
Experiance goes a long way but without training on the new you leave yourself and your department in the past.
"But thats the way weve always done it" dont cut it anymore and will kill someone -
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Permalink Reply by verno on
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Wow Max,someone really yanked your chain!!! I feel that experience goes a long way in the fire service............BUT the firefighter that has 20yrs on a dept. doesn't mean he has 20yrs on the job!!!!! Everyone knows the guys that have 15 to 20yrs in and think they know EVERYTHING but the last formal training class they went to was their fire school(36hr-240hr). Big f^*king deal!!!! Everyone can see the fire service changes every day and if you can't see that you need to get OUT before someone gets hurt. Years on the job along with years of training= EXPERIENCE !!
You cant have one without the other and be experienced in my eyes. So get off your asses and train and i dont mean watch clips on youtube, what kind of training is that????? Watching something and doing it are two different things. Plus you look like a jackass when you are doing hands on and you say "I know how to do this I seen it on youtube" GO F^$K YOURSELF -
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Permalink Reply by R Griffin on
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So my (youtube fire school of tomorrow certificates are no good) ? LOL BE SAFE!!! EGH-DTRT-PTB-RFB-KTF
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Permalink Reply by Max L on
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you mean there is a place online where i can become a firefighter by watching clips of someone doing it wrong chances are or right not like i would know if i didnt train lol... click firefighter a to move with firefighter b........... oh no collapse trapped firefighter.... oh wait control alt delete and insert new trucks and gear woooohhhoooooo my sims city fire department guys in make believe are all fine and well rocking this online thing.. oh wait seems my trucks dont have a control alt delete buttons.. can somone with red trucks check and see if comes on them??????
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Well let me say you really need both. First off some of us old school guys know with a measured degree of predictability, how our buildings would perform, react and fail under most fire conditions. This is what our years of fireground experience provided us, and how we ultimately would predict, assess, plan and implement our incident action plans and ultimately deploy our stations-based upon the predictable performance expected. Conventional Construction Structures (CCS) had this predictably of performance. You know, that typical residential structure, the 2-1/2 story wood frame, the three story brick and joist type III occupancy, the four story frame multiple occupancy, etc., etc. Unlike Engineered System Structures (ESS) whose predictability is rooted in the fact that they are unpredictable.
The emerging fire service issues affecting buildings, occupancies and structural systems related to ESS is only beginning to take hold a prominent role and level of significance that is long overdue. The fire service has been dealing with the operational issues and line-of-duty deaths related to ESS since the 1980s and now in 2009, we're finally raising these ESS issues to a dialog point that is influencing firefighter safety, survival and operations.
The fire service is beginning to fully recognize the merits in adjusting, altering, and changing our strategic and tactical ways of doing business in the streets. It's becoming self evident in the fire service that it's no longer acceptable to think that ESS buildings and occupancies will perform in the same manner as CCS buildings and occupancies and that tactics deployed in both CCS and ESS buildings and occupancies will react under similar strategic and tactical plans and tasks. These unique and inherent factors within the ESS profiles must give us a new standard for operational deployment; strategies and tactics that are defined by the risk profile of the building, its engineered structural systems, materials and methods of construction and the fire loading present. -
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You are correct My chief... however how many of the 20+ guys in this county truly have an idea of what your talking about?? yes the experience to build off of. however when they do nothing from the point of orginal training they are useless. if your at a house built in 1950 they are rocking and right on the money. if they are trying to fight a house fire of a house built in 2008 as they did the 1950 home someone is taking a vertical last ride on a truck. that is the point i am getting to.. so so so so so so so many feel they know it all and dont need to learn anything else. its always the same way everytime.. at some point the old guys will want to train for fear of being made to look bad the younger guys. time will tell but its going to happen..
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Permalink Reply by Don Vuletic on
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Max, on some points I agree with you and on some points I disagree with you. Ill let it go at that.
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I'd love to hear your thoughts Don. truly the more experience a person has the better. but if they do nothing to further what they know at some point and time they will be obsolete. it takes a ballance but knowing what is coming in tomorrow is just as important as what was here yesterday.. cars alone are enough to kill someone let alone the shotty way they build houses now..
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Thanks D this is one of the points i want to see brought up. The experienced guys should be showing the way of what they know not just holding down a bumper talking about the big fire of 1989. but by the same right just because a guy has less time than you dont think you can learn from him. or be dare i say intimidated by a younger guy knowing more.. share and learn. there are thing i know from the time i have put in.. but there are things one of the younger guys know because they went to the class. why cant i take what they learned and learn it.
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Permalink Reply by Brett Smith on
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The fire service is changing every day. It is up to us the FF and officers to keep up with the times and put exp and education together. I am not to proud to let a younger guy with less experience but more training teach me.Whatever it takes to learn and get the job done safely. Becouse in the end all politics aside,we need to protect our brothers so EVREYONE GOES HOME.
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