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Do You Take an Attack Line In When Performing a Primary Search?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rescue1 on
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Great answers. This is a subject that once again was recently discussed while just shooting the shyt over coffee and there are always many opinions and great suggestions. Our job is to protect: 1) life and 2) property. Training and experience play a key role. We can discuss our individual tactics and training which is incorporated with our experience all day. Many factors play a role along with reading the smoke and fire conditions which also help to determine what our risk vs. our gain. It’s always best and recommended to have a line in place to protect us but we all know that isn’t always possible. Back to the basics! Our size up, occupancy, time of day and manpower all help to determine our level of risk. In the end, it all comes down to the firefighter/officer /IC to deter ine, in seconds, that the factors involved give us and advantage to conduct a search safely and we all go home in the end . It’s not easy but that’s what we do.
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Permalink Reply by Russ on
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i guess its a matter of "where you were raised". Capcity and i are from the NE and its not a matter of who's right or wrong, its the culture of the dept. you're in. searching without a hose is a NE thing and something he and i are are used to. In the south where i am now, they search with a handline, (but they also run 5 person quints). This is one another of my favorite subjects under the heading of "does anyone teach young firefighters how to "read" a fire?"
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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If you do not know anything and don't care about how it is done in Europe then why jab them? I don't get that type of thinking.
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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Perhaps read my other responses.
I have said, Best practice is to have a charged line. Clearly there are exceptions.
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It is not "wrong" to enter a building without a hose line. It is a valid tactic, done all the time all over the country. Laddermen to the floor above fire, no hose, to do the search. Laddermen searching the fire floor not with the hose line, engine does that. It is not even "best practice" to have a hose, it is just the way you do it. It is done differently here, it works.
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FETC, You are right on the mark, as is Ben, Capcity and Westphilly. In most city departments large (NY, LA, SF, DC and such) and small (Spokane, Salt Lake, Boise, Camden etc.) this is the day to day way of doing business. Fisrt engine takes the attack line, second lays in and take a backup line, first truck searches with no hose, vents, forcible entry. The following engines and trucks as assigned (RIT, second attack line, more search teams etc.) It happens everyday in cities all over the country. To say it is wrong or not safe is ill informed. We are trained to work this way, do it all the time and it is sucessful. Capcity tries from time to time to explain that fighting fires in the city is different from rural and suburban firefighting because of many factors. This is how it is different, enter the fire building to do a search without a hose line is standard practice in cities. It is not in other setting because of many factors, staffing, training, experience etc.
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Not just Northeast Russ, Northwest as well, really west coast. I think in the north and west it is a "city" thing.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on
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I think you're correct, at least in my case.
But there is nothing I can do about it as my helmet is the wrong color.
Other than, accidentally drop the line at the front door. ;-)
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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Phoenix ladder crews don't do searches? What are you smoking?
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Searching IS ladder work, I know you are new, ladder or truck work is as follows. Forcible entry, ventilation, search, rescue, reconisance, salvage and overhaul. I think there is a learning curve here, keep at it, read, ask, study.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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It's not just a big city practice. I started my career not too far from Capcity's jurisdiction and I know how much a solidly-built and subdivided structure can stop fire spread in the short term.
On the other hand, my current employer doesn't serve a big city, and we still routinely search without a hoseline when the situation calls for it.
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Exactly. That's where experience comes in - you have to pick your spots, regardless of what technique you use.
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