Because of another topic I thought I would start a new topic on booster lines, including high pressure and the new ultra-high pressure ones.

High pressure has some what of a jaded past here in the US having been tried by the military in WWII for aircraft firefighting and then used in structural firefighting in the 40's through the 70's.  In the late 70's and more into the early 80's booster lines of all types seemed to lose favor and more and more rigs were ordered without them.  The simple fact was FDs removed them so they would not be used for structural or vehicle fires because many times the flow wasn't close to being enough to handle the volume of fire crews were experiencing.

I am not intimating that booster lines or high pressure for that matter disappeared,  Some FDs still ordered apparatus with booster lines, some low pressure, some high pressure.  But they were not common by any stretch.  I can see the value of a low pressure booster line for brush and rubbish fires, easy to deploy and even easier to pick up after words.  Now, mostly because of a European based apparatus manufacturer, the US is seeing high pressure booster reels re-appear on a limited number of apparatus.  I see this as a dangerous trend especially when these lines are being used for interior attack.  If this tactic was such a dismal failure with legacy style furnishings what makes people believe they will work better with furnishings that are little more than solidified gasoline (plastic)?  Add to that the NFPA calls for a minimum of 100gpm for interior structural fire attack lines.  No booster reel, low or high pressure that I am aware of will come close to that flow.  Even if you are not an NFPA state don't kid yourself into believing NFPA won't be used against you an ignorance of the standard is not a defense.

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Things that make you go Hm...

Now that is some funny stuff right there.  I gave in to his request to start a new topic. He posts a game playing post that I call him on, he makes one more post that I commented on, and POOF he runs away?  I didn't want him to leave, I just wanted him to answer questions and stop playing games.  Oh well, life goes on.

Honestly I was looking forward to a fact based debate with him on booster lines and high pressure fog.  I have tried to ask serious questions of those that have posted on this topic to try to figure out how they are getting the flows they say they are and no one seems to want to answer. 

Apparently expecting people to explain and back up  what they mean is too terrifying for some. 

 

I enjoyed debating with Capcity.  I didn't always agree with him but we did have some good discussions.

This site makes me wonder sometimes. If some of the people on here just go to their training; and what ever the instructor say's they take as gospel. Or our chief said we have always done it like this and its the only way. Or they just don't like asking questions.

There are many topics on here that some chime in on but once you ask them to show how the came up with figures they disappear. I guess as i tell it "the facts are facts and the rest is bull crap." 

So thousands of people on this site from around the world and nobody can show or explain how to get 100 gpm  out of a booster line? Hm! Funny stuff i thought i was going to learn something new.

'

The funny thing is I am sure it is possible, but not out of a couple hundred feet of 3/4 or 1 inch hose.  Chicago used to run Willy's hi-pressure trucks with I think John Bean pumps, 1 inch hose and a regular 100 psi handline nozzle. They would get 70 gpm out of those lines.  There are places that run 1 1/4inch or 1 1/2inch reel lines. At high pressure with the right nozzle both of them could easily flow 100 gpm.  We ran 1 1/4inch reel lines on a crash truck and we flowed 95 gpm out of those lines.

So why a I, the anti-hose reel guy explaining this when we have and had reel line advocates here?  Beats me? 

I have never used a booster line so I was really looking forward for the answers to your questions. Not that i think we'd ever go back to a 1" or 1.5" hose line. It took me long enough to get the chiefs to go to 2" attack lines and GPM adjustable Akron nozzles that you can unscrew the tip and have a smooth bore if you so chose.

My #1 POC FDs uses 2 inch hose exclusively for our attack lines.  We use Elkhart 200gpm at 75psi break apart nozzles with a 1 1/4 inch slug tip.  We under pump the combo tip to about 55psi to get 160gpm as our starting point flow, we could of course go to 75psi to flow 200gpm. If that isn't enough we spin off the combo tip and flow 300gpm at 42 psi to the slug tip.

One size attack line.  The ultimate keep it simple stupid. 

Yes booster lines were used were they should not have been but that is no reason to throw them away. Training and sop or sog's will take care of that or should take of it. Where I retired from booster's were used at almost every fire. We had a lot of woods/brush fires and they were used for mop up at building fires also but that's all. Where I'm a vollie out of 6 apparatus only two have booster and one is a brush truck. To me it's a pain to drag a 13/4" around for a woods fire and we do not have any Indian tanks which is a blessing I think. 

One other thing I forgot is water flow and not water drop size puts out the fire. The John Bean high pressure was a big seller in its time. Look any fire you could put out with those Bean booster nozzles you could put out with an 11/2 and do it faster and handle more fire than those high pressure Bean nozzles operating at 600-800 psi. I think this ultra-high pressure is going to go the way of the Bean high pressure. People are going to use it, see its limitations and it will go away. But as always time will tell. This new way to attack a fire by just spraying a bit of water into the smoke is something else to watch. Well we will see. If it is not helpful, man power saving, and that is important in career depts.,easy to learn and use it will go away. 

Don what kind of crash truck. You know you throw that pump into gear that governor is going to take that pump to operating  press. right now be it 150 psi or 750 psi. You weren't using a duck bill nozzle to be sure?
 
Don Catenacci said:

The funny thing is I am sure it is possible, but not out of a couple hundred feet of 3/4 or 1 inch hose.  Chicago used to run Willy's hi-pressure trucks with I think John Bean pumps, 1 inch hose and a regular 100 psi handline nozzle. They would get 70 gpm out of those lines.  There are places that run 1 1/4inch or 1 1/2inch reel lines. At high pressure with the right nozzle both of them could easily flow 100 gpm.  We ran 1 1/4inch reel lines on a crash truck and we flowed 95 gpm out of those lines.

So why a I, the anti-hose reel guy explaining this when we have and had reel line advocates here?  Beats me? 

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