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Apparatus Highway Spotting - Do we create the hazard(s)?
- When spotting apparatus, what rules do you follow as far as placement of your apparatus for highway responses?
- What hazards do you see in the photograph above and how could you resolve any identified safety issues?
Note: What you don't see on the left side of the engine is a vehicle over the side...
TCSS,
CBz
"Not all training occurs on the fireground. Concepts, practices and procedures can be learned using internet based training programs that contain graphics and text, designed to work together in concert to motivate, prepare and enable the learner to apply the information while at the station or off duty at home. This type of training can be very effective for in-station mini-training topics for your crew. While the answer(s) are more than obvious, the point is to have your crew openly discuss what they would do differently to provide both crew and scene safety. When you respond to the next incident on the highway, everyone on board your engine will have a different sense of awareness. Why? Because you talked about it..."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Limited access, two lanes, E-18 is on the shoulder which, due to the size of the rig impinges on the (slow) travel lane, forcing the oncoming 18 wheeler over the dividing line into the other (passing) lane. Problem appears to be limited space as well as limited notification; how far back is the traffic being warned of an accident ahead?
No (apparent) lane shutdown so the incident must be off to the right on the shoulder. Since no lane shutdown I'm assuming it's a minor but inconvenient incident. The above being said, I'm a firm believer that at least one lane should be shut down (warning lights, cones, flares) with the engine used to block the incident (E-18 is not blocking that well, a rear end and it's going into the incident it's blocking. Blocking at an angle can deflect the striking vehicle off the highway and won't drive the engine into the incident.
We don't have limited access highways here, only multiple lane state roads but the principals are the same. Shut down lanes, block and/or divert traffic, mitigate the incident as quickly and as SAFELY as possible.
Most egregious error seen? The fact that your apparatus is white. Nobody recognizes it as an emergency vehicle, much less a fire engine. Would you like sprinkles on your softee cone?
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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The one thing I'd be doing with the apparatus in the photo is to turn the front wheels away from the scene so if it is ploughed into, it runs off somewhere, and not into us.
Especially given the fog (or is it smoke?)in this photo,this is really importent.
I'd probably also run out traffic cones and e-flares. For the cones, we run a 1:1 ratio- for every 1km of speed, we run out cones 1 metre apart (ie: 100km zone would be 100 metres of cones). In low visibility or ice conditions, we run it 1.5:1 ratio.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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The irony is that back in the 1970's someone in purchasing figured out it was cheaper to purchase white vehicles. Red paint was extra... The blue stripes came afterwards and only because of DOT regulations. Prior to the reflective striping, our apparatus were invisible in the smoke or fog. Real fire trucks are red...
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Ice conditions in Australia? Really?
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Permalink Reply by Todd on
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Everything has pretty much been covered, although as someone who has been inches away from being wiped out on a scene when I wasn't even in a lane of traffic if I am taking part of the lane, I am taking all of the lane. I'm putting the apparatus between myself and oncoming traffic, and I am going to make traffic slow down to a safe speed as they pass the scene. Yes, it's going to pose a traffic problem....so let's get in there, get the job done and clear the roadway as quickly as possible, thus eliminating the hazard.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Anderson on
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How do you get them to slow down? We have problems with no one slowing down even if the shoulder is all that is open. We will have cones, lights on them at night, engine blocking with arrowstick flashing in the direction to move to, and they still fly by like nothing is there. 18 wheelers are the worst. Texas has the move over or slow to 20mph below the speed limit law, but I swear some of them enjoy threading the needle.
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The ways you describe. If that doesn't work we shut down the road. When law enforcement arrives they can take over traffic, but if at any time I feel my crew is in danger I'm taking action to keep them safe. I'd rather inconvenience a few drivers than have to explain to a spouse why I didn't bring their firefighter home.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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We use the concept "Working Lane" Plus 1. Biggest Apparatus furthest from the closure to start the block (all of the working lane plus 1, Rescue parked closer to the accident for tool reach and positioned to repeat the block as well. Then EMS is downstream or in the shadow of the block, after the accident.
If the lanes do not allow working lane plus 1 then I close the entire side or both. If this was an accident involving a death, the PD is quick to close the roadway for 3-4 hours while they reconstruct, I am going to provide the same protection for my men regardless of what they say. (In reality it is 15-20 minutes)
As far as highway travel speeds depicted in the picture or other comments, most FD's do not carry enough cones to provide the pre-block wedge (lane closure) before the first FD apparatus block with cones. Do you have enough cones for a 200-250' lane crossover? Our driver is responsible for the cone work, and in reality if he can see the accident, then the block is incorrect. All responders and the car accident itself should be within the shadow of the block. (standing at the first cone, looking back at the accident, for which the traveling public will come upon)
@ Bill - It is not uncommon for the PD to race after a speeding car that didn't yield. (It comes with a nice hefty fine) Get with your PD, discuss the concern and that if they enforce the law, it makes it safer for us and them plus brings in revenue. We have the same move over and slow down laws.
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Permalink Reply by Nenad on
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Many european FD, especialy German use orange or yellow coloring because red color in dark for human eye becomes dark blue or black . Orange in daylight becomes red in night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bhbIBDBZO8&feature=relmfu
On the video at 2:35 you can see autoladder passing near the camera. Red color truck is less visible than first or third orange truck.
Or this swiss yellow trucks in evening exit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djw1SK9QuKI&feature=related
How about this truck:
http://www.rosenbauer.com/index.php?node_id=18490&USER=c45c53e7...
Our traffic police uses Devioled, easy to deploy and plug.
Watch this video in low visibility:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GS5evZCLuE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P5pV-X-yAY&feature=related
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Nenad,
When unlit, certain colors are more apparent others less so. The visibility of an apparatus' color at night is mostly a moot point, it is the warning devices (lights) that warn other drivers and identify emergency apparatus. Regardless of the color, it is the lights and reflective stripping that makes a vehicle "visible" at night.
With regard to color visibility over distance, red travels further than blue, so having ONLY blue warning lights, beyond a certain distance, would appear white. Definitely still visible but could confuse oncoming traffic that they are only headlights, and not emergency vehicle warning lights. I'm just saying...
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In Europe, depends by country laws what color of vehicles and emergency lights will be. Mostly is red/white combination of body color and blue color of lights, but there are white, yellow, orange or other color vehicles with red or even yellow lights for emergency vehicles.
In my country all emergency vehicles must use blue lights, service vehicles yellow. Only on rear part of emergency vehicles is allowed to have yellow blinking signal lights that start to signal when the vehichle is on work. We call them ''running lights'' because you can show by which side aproaching vehicles can pass (left, right, both, or stop).
Photo of our vehicle, yellow TRIBLITZ lights on top on rear part of wehicle
http://www.ziegler.hr/images/stories/vatrogasnavozila/navalnavozila...
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