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helmet visors and the rules with them
I have purchased a cairnes 1044 with the defender shield on it. The week after I got it I found out the goggles were not up to miosha standard. This is a Michigan standard they meet the NFPA , but not miosha. So I did some research into it and what i found was that miosha requires cheek and eye protection. This means mine does not give cheek protection and the visors dont give eye protection. So either way you have to wear more than one type of facial protection. Does any one else have this issue? Is there any way around the rule? Why dont they make one visor to be acceptable for all sets of rules?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Safety goggles or safety glasses - including the defender shield - are designed as eye protection.
Shields are designed as face protection.
Neither one is designed to do both.
How about just wearing a flash hood for cheek protection with the defender?
I'm not familiar with MIOSHA requires, but it is practical and it puts you in "no skin showing" mode.
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Permalink Reply by Hawk on
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We just retrofitted our helmets with the new defender visors. It was a bit of a painful process-you have to drill new holes in your helmet, replace everything but the shell and then try to fit short screws thru 2 brackets and the helmet. I haven't got to use them on anything yet but previously I used the regular shield. For us, the face shield is no longer considered face/eye protection due to the fact anything can fly up under the shield. I melted 2 of them and wasn't happy with the protection so I went to the goggles. I really like them, I felt they had superior eye protection and were great in a grass/brush fire.
That miosha rule is crazy-here in our area (North Tx) we are only required the eye protection-why would they include "cheek" protection? Why wouldn't you then include mouth, nose, chin or ear protection? I think it's another case of a pencil pusher that has never had to work outside for a living trying to impress his boss. Good luck finding something that fits those parameters and isn't a motorcycle helmet.
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Permalink Reply by roy yoder on
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hey the motorcycle helment might just work. on another blog they are talking about the 2009 standard for helment storage since it is not made for crashes and is not to be worn in the fire truck. wait before you scream, it was a couple of years ago i saw in a write up for, i think an aussie fire magazine of a helment that was desighned like a full motorcycle helment and fitted with a fitting for the ba to plug into and a switch that when activated infated like an airbag and sealed of the bottom of the helment and made an air tight seal. wala, crash helment, breathing mask and full face protection. i thought it to be a good idea but it sure hits hard at tradition. i do agree that a lot of this is a pencil pusher but the whole underlying fact as i see it is to keep stupid alive and safe from himself. take osha and niosh out of the picture and you have us rednecks saying our famous last words HEY WATCH THIS.
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you just retrofitted. how painful was it and what kind of cost did you have. i like the idea of the shield inside the helment and not exposed the the smoke and heat as with the 4 inch shield we now have. did you find that the shield is less affected inside the helment and when you need it you can actually see out of it. thanks for any info in advance
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Permalink Reply by Kayla Bartlett on
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i only have googles on my helment i dont have a shield.. i mean when i go to calls i have my hood on and that protects the rest of my face... so if you wear both you should be all set. cause if you only have a face shield and wear the hood our eyes are still exposed.. so.... do the right thing and try to wear both if you got them..
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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We have the "defender" shields on our helmets and I for one like them....I think if you wear ALL your PPE including the hood then all areas are protected...No skin showing is the way to go.....only problem I had was getting used to the shield....slam it down once while in a hurry and it can rap your nose pretty good.....LOL
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Permalink Reply by Rob Elliott on
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I understand your situation about the different rules. I have some here in Maine under the State Board of Labor but sounds like your state is superseding NFPA. Not such a bad thing, I guess. Every fire dept in Maine gets inspected about every 2-3 years by State inspectors and I feel it's great cause if things aren't right either things change or fines are levied against the dept.(if they are serious enough i.e. no SCBA testing) Even heard an unconfirmed story that a fire chief got a ride in a cruiser with matching bracelets cause he obstructed the inspection in a less than friendly manner. And supposedly he was removed from office by the State . As far as the manufacturers making something to fit your rules but that salesman right on the spot. Those guys make enough pay cause you rarely see them show up in an old car or truck. If what you bought doesn't meet miosha it seems that sales person ought to make good on the deal. Or, find someone else.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Larson on
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i have this issue too and am also looking for a way around it if i find anything ill let ya know
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Permalink Reply by Joey "BigShow" De Piano on
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Bro, you will never find the true answer to that one or a lot of other issues , miosha , peosha, osha , and NFPA couldn't agree on any one policy to save their own rear ends. From what iwas told a fire fighter can or is allowed to wear flip ups on a helmet so long as they have either goggles or adequate eye protection such as spec designed safety glasses like for extrication.
Here is the funny part, if you work in the trades industry all the oshas say no cheek protection just sufficient eye protections required, now I don't about anyone else but last time I was on a job sight the metal workers get tiny pieces of schrapnel in their faces almost daily but that' s ok as long as the yhave a hard hat and eye protection.
So no matter what you wear your wrong pretty much, but if I had to choose between a scar on my cheek bone and being blind I'll wear the scar proudly.
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Hey Roy, sorry it took me so long to reply. It was a painful process but after about 15-20 minutes you are done, I don't like drilling into my helmet for any reason-even if the manufacturer warranties the upgrade. We have just over 200 FF's on our dept and the only complaint I have heard is that it will bust the bridge of your nose if you pop it down too quickly. Some guys cut nasal canula tubing and sliced it long ways and put it on the goggles as a nose protector-like sunglasses. Time will tell, I figure like everything else they will break down and not stay up in the locked position or get scratched and have to be replaced-nothing new. It is well protected inside the helmet, we just had a residential fire and it took out the garage, kitchen and into the attic before we got it out, after the fire it was great to be able to just pop the goggles down for overhaul of the attic. I've been on the job for just over ten years and I like tradition, I guess the Euro helmet is probably better for the job but I will never be happy with anything but a traditional style helmet. The shield was okay but mine was always smoked up and you can only clean it up so much before scratching it up. You are right about them trying to be cautious for our safety but I just feel like sometimes these guys have no idea what we have to do and how we do it, I knew the dangers of this job when I signed up for it-I don't want to get hurt but I want to be able to do my job effectively. Sorry I got off the subject...goggles=good.
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