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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on May 30, 2008 at 12:22pm

If you are on a fire department and you are young or old, you had better be listening and learning.
If not, step over THERE to be measured for your body bag.
To believe that FIRE hasn't changed since it was discovered is foolish.
The only thing that hasn't changed is the amount of oxygen it takes to sustain it. It's the FUEL and HEAT that has change dramatically.
Oh, I know that Fire still destroys and kills, but it seems to be getting better at it and we need to train for it. Young or old; if you're still in, you'd better allow for the changes that are taking place.
TCSS.
Art

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Permalink Reply by Paul MacKinnon on May 30, 2008 at 3:14pm

as a 3 month rookie in my fire dept i try to take in all that goes on ,some day it might save my life . mabe im getting old enought to know better than carry on during class and training i will be 40 in july haha. its not a game its life or death .

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Permalink Reply by Lawrence W on May 30, 2008 at 4:15pm

There are many aspects of our world that are changing faster than those that have been in for a while. I agree, there needs to be an understanding between the rookies and the officers as to what is expected of them and if they are allowed to perform what, but when the "crap hits the fan" is not the time to discover the shortcomings of the academy, the innate fears or hesitations of your recruit. We all volunteer to be involved in this organization we call the fire service. Whether paid or unpaid, we all volunteer to be here and can leave when it no longer fits our desires. What we can't afford, is to have someone who has some kind of a delusion about the fire service and what it is all about make themselves another victim in a bad situation. Please don't get me wrong, I am all for saving your own, but I don't want to be 2-in with the guy that freezes at the doorway because they have never seen fire that intense before...

As far as the Marines going to the cards to make a DI stop yelling at a recruit, You joined the Marines pal, what did you expect?? It's not a tea party, this is the culture of the Marine Corp. boot camp. Get Over It...

We live in a world where action must be precise and well planned. We have chosen to live in this world, a world where we depend on others to perform their tasks as assigned, quickly and efficiently. It is a matter of our safety and the safety of our public. If you can't handle the culture or the procedures, issues, or tactics of your department, please, find somewhere else to be. This is serious work for folks that know what to do, when and how to do it.

I understand that there is a learning curve for each of us when we first start out or when we are new to a department. That is to be expected. Different departments do things differently. The real world can often be vastly different than a classroom as well. Your academy training, FFI, EMT, etc. give you a basis of knowledge to apply to the real world. Half the education that you will receive will happen on the truck, when the "Crap hits the Fan." When you went into a training burn, you had an instructor to lead and instruct you. Your first months (or years) in the department are no different. Depend on those with the experience to guide you through. Trust their experience and follow their lead.

My point here is this: Whether you are new to the fire service or a 20+ year veteran, keep your mind open and your mouth shut. Telling me how great you are doesn't help me as a rookie to learn from my mistakes. EVERYONE can learn something new on the call you take today. While the classroom is different than real life, tactics and procedures change over time to improve our handling of situations. Please remember that once you feel that you know everything about the fire service and there is nothing left to learn, it's time for you to retire. This means newbies or veterans. This is a dynamic field and we do need to adapt to many changes and regular changes. While some things that happened early in my career or even before my time are better gone, others will be sorely missed. That is the way of the fire service, continual improvement and constant change.

Be Safe...

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Permalink Reply by Walter Messer on June 1, 2008 at 1:23pm

We have a couple of them right now. My thoughts are don't give them the time of day. I dont talk to them unless I have to and only fire related. just give them olny the information they ask for le tthem figure the rest out.
Most of the members are the same way with them.

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Permalink Reply by Medicine Man on June 1, 2008 at 2:43pm

Well at my dept., all new recruits after they get out of fire academy have to go thru 3 1/2 years of BOOT/ JATC training. This is where they learn the streets, the apparatus, SOP's and basically how to conduct themselves. In the first 364 days on the job if they dont "get it" or get a bad in company rating they can be terminated. After that they must pass monthly evaluations during there BOOT/JATC training they can be disiplined. which if they get enough they can be terminated. This pretty much keeps or changes there attitude toward the better side!! LOL

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Permalink Reply by Bill Shea on June 1, 2008 at 2:59pm

One of the ways we handle this is right in the begining when they start recruit school. Number 1 rule, keep your mouth shut and your ears open. Once they hit the line they are issued the ifsta essentials book and work books and if they are not studying street or training they are required to be in those books and no tv till off probation. Also we require proficiency exams though their probation both written and practical. The new guy cockyness can be delt with if you have proper leadership at both the company officer level as well as the person wearing the 5 horns. This is also a time for senior guys to step up and step on the new guys. Kids we are hiring how have very little life experience, have not served in the military, have no trade skills at all, and with the limited number of fires we are seeing now a days have very little fire ground live fire experience. All these qualities can lead to disaster unless we take the time to train these new hires properly. Do company street drills around the table. Teach them how to use and trouble shoot an chain saw or partner saw. Take the time to get them hours of driving time before they need to cover drive on and emergency. Those a few ideas i can offer.

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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on June 1, 2008 at 4:55pm

Out of interst MedicineMan, are the senior members put throug hthe same monthly evaluations?

Surely they must also continue to proce their competence?

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Permalink Reply by Medicine Man on June 1, 2008 at 9:26pm

Well, there is not a montly evaluation, however we do have to go thru whats called a company evaluation which is done on a yearly basis. This evaluates everybody from the officer, senior man, down to the new guy if that company has one. The officer is ultimately responsible to make sure that everyone is doing there job properly and safely. Unfortunately, what I would like to see change is the same fitness standards placed on the JATC guys also placed on every member once they are out of the apprenticeship training. However my dept. does not place those restrictions on senior members. Unfortunately there are some senior members who have slipped thru and maybe should go back thru the program, LOL

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Permalink Reply by T.J. on September 10, 2008 at 7:41pm

I think every department has aa few of these and we're a very aggressive fire department so we'll put them in their spot and they usaully calm down after that, if not they load hose tell they learn to shut up:)

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