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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on March 30, 2008 at 10:04am

I assume you mean this fire...

http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2008033...

Pedro, I am not sure the circumstances of this fire. The reports through various sites have stated the house was engulfed in flames. (keyword engulfed) As firefighters (and I assume you are one also, although I am a little mystified at your lack of insite on the matter) when a building is engulfed with fire, a camera isn't exactly the most useful tool. The camera's can and will overheat, and the MAJOR factor would be LIFE SAFETY of the firefighters on scene. I couldn't imagine the firefighters who did make the rescue wanted to sit tight until the fire had been put in check.
As a firefighter there is no worse feeling than the utter feeling of helplessness because you know there is someone inside the burning house and you can't get to them. I also know that although unfortunate, this type of incident isn't isolated either. We protect ourselves first. Sending a team into a fully involved structure is not the way to go.
Sometimes you can do everything right and the outcome still sucks. It is part of what we do.

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Permalink Reply by Mary Ellen Shea on March 30, 2008 at 10:47am

As Mike said, if the home was engulfed in flame....extreme consistent temps will cause the camera to "white out" --rendering it useless in a search.

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Permalink Reply by mike wright on March 30, 2008 at 12:30pm

When the house if engulfed like mike said the camera is worthless, and the person inside unfortunatly has probably passed on from heat and smoke. This is when you need to look at firefighter safty over a unknown recovery. You never risk a life to save a life.

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on March 30, 2008 at 12:43pm

Pedro, these look like valid answers to your question.

Unless you have some additional knowledge we aren't privy to?

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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on March 30, 2008 at 1:52pm

If you stop to think, you may think to stop. Hurling yourself into a building (even if it is a tiny place) thats fully involved (which all the reports has the first units reporting) would have not only provided the homeowner as a casualty, it would have most likely led to a LODD or serious injury. The reports I continue to read say they started supression methods successfully and then aggressively led an interior attack and located the victim. (still alive) The victim was pronounced dead at the hospital, not the scene, so the firefighters did as they should have.

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Permalink Reply by Devil Doc on March 30, 2008 at 5:47pm

Rist a little to save a little, Risk alot to save alot and Risk nothing to save what is already lost.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on April 5, 2008 at 8:21am

I have to take exception to your statements.....1st...are you a firefighter...? 2nd...Were you there? The initial report was "fully engulfed" are you aware what that means...? It may sound cruel and heartless BUT if you show up on a "working structure fire" call and there are flames blowing out every window then there is nothing you can do, a rescue is not possible...there is noone left to "rescue" there is only a "recovery" and putting your men in there in that situation is DEAD wrong...one has to weigh the risk vs reward factor everytime you give the order to send people in...Don't stand there and beat your chest...it is a fact...not every fire scene is a break down the doors here I come....I understand your concerns...but you weren't wearing the Chiefs boots at this one...Stay safe Brother......Paul

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Permalink Reply by Moose on April 10, 2008 at 2:13pm

Pedro, Brother... i hope you were not the one that found the woman. Are you trying to seek help with this? I ask only because I was in the same boat when I was 19...we had a ripping fire with reports of someone trapped. I was fresh out of firefighter I and ready to rock and roll so I was the first through the door to try and find him. The front half of the house was working and had flashed over, I went in through the back but it was too late.

Just like mentioned earlier by some obviously wise, experienced brothers of ours, there was nothing that could be done that wasnt already done. They did everything possible. If the small house was fully involved, no TIC, hoseline, or officer could have done anything to save this person. We win and we loose, you have to realise when we loose you need to talk it out and keep strong and ready to face the next challenge. Its how weface these challenges and overcome them together that makes us firefighters.

Stay Safe Brother...
Brian "Moose" Jones

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Permalink Reply by Barbara Nelson on April 10, 2008 at 8:06pm

We had a call like this about 4 weeks ago in our district. We had 4 on our engine crew. engineer, officer, 2 firefighters( Me and another guy). The fire was comming out the front window and the front door and the celing had fallen. The TIC would have whited out and been useless and in the way. We were told that the victim was in the front right bedroom. We made a rapid knock down in the frontroom and made our way to the bedroom when we got to the bedroom door it had already burned through. We found her on the floor between her bed and the window not alive. Needless to say it was tuff but what is really hard is when a neighbor came to me and asked WHAT TOOK SO LONG? (What took so long was the call to 911). We did not save her from death but we did save her from being burned.
I think you should have a CISD. It will help. After ours it was required for those directly involved. It did help. If you want you can go to my page I have the picture of that fire on my home page. If you want to leave a note that would be great. Just rember think about what went right not what did not. You can't win them all. GOOD LUCK

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