SCBA's

my department is trying to decide on which air packs to buy. we got a good size grant that will cover the cost to equip all our trucks with new scba's but we are trying to decide which ones to get. we have a choice between msa's, isi's, and the new scotts. we have scotts now and plenty of bottles. im thinking of getting scotts so we can save money on bottles by using old ones and using left over money to use on pub eds in our community.
what do you use and what do you like about them?

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Permalink Reply by 41rescue3 on March 27, 2008 at 11:27am
we are in a similar situation that you are in we just got grant money and are looking in to all new packs and we had scott and are staying with them
Permalink Reply by Dennis Hale on March 27, 2008 at 11:58am
We run MSA packs. They're comfortable and very functional. The new MSA packs have a rescue rope in the waist belt which is a really great idea. I like the VibraAlert on the Scott packs because I was recently on a call where my 1/4 service bell was going off and I thought that it was someone else. I just saw the new Survivair pack called the Warrior. It looks pretty solid. I think all packs have their pros and cons, you just have to decide for your department. PS-Chicago just switched from Scott to MSA.
Permalink Reply by Shannon H. Pennington on May 3, 2008 at 2:08pm
amanda......about the isi's .... they freeze up in the regulators at the mask fit....about using old tanks....have you ever done maintenance on the tanks? Have they been taken out of service purged with live steam....microbe checks and certified as clean and free of contamination? Are they steel or fiberglass tanks....steel weighs more and fatigues you....are the new scba's .....c.b.r.n. rated? (Chemical Biological Nuclear)....if you choose..... choose wisely....use the best for the best.....spend the money and go fully up to date.....dump the old stuff....get the new stuff....make sure you do your homework with a mask committee....and find out if your mutual aid depts have the same type of masks.....I.H.D. incidents mean you will be working task force with other depts in your local area....equipment compatability means your integrated not out on a limb with your own gear.....msa is the standard but...others are out there....about pub eds in your community....try and remember that you too in the fire service are a community and you too need the education......so...spend what you have on your team and your dept. Oxymeters for REHAB do you have them? The community thing is nice but....get your gear in order.....your in the toughtest fight of your life. If your going to be a "Rubber Boot Warrior" then get the best training and equipment your dolars can buy.....
stay safe...

Shannon H. Pennington ptsd firefighterveteran
26 years with IAFF Professional dept.
North American Fire Fighter Veterans Network
F.I.R.S.T. S.T.E.P. H.O.P.E.
care for the caregivers
Permalink Reply by David McElroy on May 3, 2008 at 3:02pm
Congrats on getting your SCBA Grant, there are a few points you need to look at and consider when purchasing new SCBA's

1) Make sure you purchase SCBA's that meet the new 2007 standards you can consult NFPA 1852

2) Make sure that you get as many safety features as you can (EBSS,HUD,Voice Boxes,RIT Connection,CBRN and NIOSH approved Regulators)

3) Scott has a new safety feature called Pak-Tracker which allows trapped firefighters to be located wirelessly (Kind of like a Lojack)

4) As you can tell I'm very much a Scott Guy, I have used MSA,ISI and Survive Air, I feel Scott is best SCBA on the market today.

5) Take a look at your needs and determine wether you need 30 or 45 min bottles, there is difference in size and weight. If you dont have manpower issues and your mutual aid is close by then I would most likely lean tword the 30 min bottle. We purchased new SCBA's about 2 yrs ago with an AFG Grant and got 45 min bottles and I wish we had gone with the 30's

6) Make sure you get at least 1 RIT Pack

7)Make sure you get a spare bottle for each pack and some way to fill your new bottles (Compressor either stationary or on a trailer) Scott makes a great little air trailer with a compressor and generator on it.

8) Be careful about using your old SCBA's Bottles, how old are the old bottles ?, Composite Bottles are only good for 15 yrs

9) The last and most importatnt point... make sure you use the entire amount you recieved for your grant on what you were awarded( If you said in your grant application SCBA's make sure you buy SCBA's with the entire award) If you get audited and it comes to light you used the money for other equipment you will most likely have to repay the entire grant award and stand a good possibility of not being able to apply for future grants . This happened to a neighboring Department here and it turned nasty.

10) Make sure you get a service,support and training contract from the vender you purchase your equipment from in writing.Specify service per NFPA 1852 and NIOSH Specs, also have in your contract that the vendor will give you loaner packs should more than 1 or 2 (depending on how many packs you have) of your packs have to sent out for service

I hope I've helped you, Good Luck and Stay Safe !!
Dave
Permalink Reply by Shannon H. Pennington on May 3, 2008 at 3:05pm
hey dave awesome return and up to date comments.....from a firefighterveteran who has been there in your case.....good job....and all the reasons we need to keep this kind of talk on these kind of forums going.......

stay safe

Shannon Pennington firefighterveteran.com/
Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on May 3, 2008 at 3:53pm
We use the Scott's....like them have the EBSS system and the RIT connector on all packs...I would steer toward the voice amplifier...we tried the radio set but it really failed and in short amout of time...just not worth the hassle....Good luck....Paul
Permalink Reply by daniel smith on May 3, 2008 at 6:17pm
amanda
The voice amplifiers are a must! They make communication so much better! I use draegers at work and scott NXG at my volunteer department. The draegers are comfortable but spendy! The newones are around 6500 a piece. The scotts have held up well and you won't have any training issues with the scotts. I hope scott changed it's hud because it glares in your eyes but other than that they are nice. Congrats on the grant
Permalink Reply by LT Lake on May 6, 2008 at 12:59pm
Great post Dave
Amanda Read Dave's post then reread it and take every word to heart. using grant money which has been granted for one item on another item is a big mistake with big consequences. I am a scott user myself but the biggest key nomater what your department chooses it to train with what you have. know it inside and out. Get to the point where you can don your pack in the dark with full turnouts on and be on air in less than 2 minutes. my point i guess is the more familiar you are with your gear the easier and more comfortable you will be when it comes time to use it.
be safe
BigLake
Permalink Reply by joe on May 7, 2008 at 8:49am
my dept. went with drager about ten years ago becouse we were half scott and half drager, i thing that the drager is far better opack than any that i have used and i have used a few , drager will also come out and tech a course to your menbers to cut down on down time on the packs for simple maintance . we now have about 20 menbers that are level 2 tech in the town . drager is the only one that you use drager bottles on any style pack including the new quick concets with a adportor. also it is the only one tha if needed you can breath under water in . it is also the only one that you can fully clean the respator part of the pack by puting in water and no have any problems. this pack will not frezze up ion cold weather the miltary uses then in alsaka for there fire fighters. look in to these packs and see what you think. good luck
Permalink Reply by Pablo Gonzales on May 7, 2008 at 10:04am
my department had to go through this about a year ago. we looked at every scba company out there. in the end we went with scotts. most of the departments around us use scotts so we when with them so we could enter change with the other departments.
Permalink Reply by Matthew Cosgrove on May 7, 2008 at 10:54am
I have used MSA's in the past and have Scotts now. We too have had some problems with the batt life. That was worked out. However the new problem is the light display on the regulator(the one you see from your mask) seems to stop working sometimes. Not a big deal....It's jus odd for packs that are 6 months old! Good Luck! -Matt
PS: If you get the buddy breathig system on the SCOTTS get the air lines to go with it! We never did so the setup is useless for now!
Permalink Reply by David McElroy on May 12, 2008 at 3:37pm
Hey Shannon..thanks for the kind words.....

Dave

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