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Does anyone teach proper search Techs anymore???
I have noticed that so much time is spent teaching safety and accountability and friction loss and blah blah blah, but it would seem the old basics are being ignored. I had 4 new guys who knew all about every latest toy and gear and can use a thermo cam with the best but they couldnt stay on a wall or God forbid do a proper search of an open industrial space. Being RIT trained (which they want to join) They are a nightmare. Did they stop teaching basic fire fighting in order to teach out of a book?? Sometimes I think we need to start again on Wet goes on hot vent as you go!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joe Bynum on
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I would have to agree with ya. Most companies and training centers are focusing on safety due to injuries and LODD that keep ouccuring. Its sad for it to happen but can not prevent it 100%. Most of us all know that the Firefighter Esstenials are people who wrote the book behind a desk and now are following NFPA rules. If you look into the book some stuff in there is not necessary. Makes us do double the work then we have to. What new recruits and other firefighters should due is when your in Fire 1 or 2 or Fire Officer courses due every thing by the book and also learn the way your company works it cause it may be much easier. Me personally i can't just read something. If you show me how to do it, then it's much easier to learn. I'm more hands-on kind of firefighter. Learn from your mistakes and make sure you make most of them while training. This is my opinion and my opinion only. Be safe and use COMMON SENSE
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Permalink Reply by turk182 on
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I say this alot but nothing beats going to a fireschool and doing a live burn. shown them the proper way to do it then let them do it with the heat and smoke and see if they learned it. We had a structual burn class last febuary and i had some new fire fighters that said they learned a lot with the heat and smoke around them. The books and slides are fine but if they can not put it into practice in a relatively safe enviroment first you may just panic them in a live fire situation.
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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I agree with ya turk. Should be a good balance of the bookwork and live fire. Anyone can be booksmart, but being booksmart doesn't help you accomplish the physical aspect of our job.
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Permalink Reply by Dan Hoey on
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The sad part doing live burn training is getting harder due to the EPA and the suits with money. I tell new probies that learn your book but remember books burn in fire.
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Whats amazing is we have hundreds of thousands of acres that burn annually, but a simple hay and pallet fire in a training atmosphere for firefighters gets scrutinized. If the EPA spent some time worrying about some of the polluters (chemical) and water quality instead of firefighters training we would be better off. Granted if a Fire department makes a bonehead move they deserve to get a lecture. (having a training facility where the runoff goes into a river etc)
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Permalink Reply by David McElroy on
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I would like to commend Brother Ed with a very well put reply you hit the nail right on the head. One of the biggest mistakes Senior Firefighters, Officers and Instructors do is they complain about how much their Junior or Mid Level Firefighters " dont know " or that we have to "get back to the basics". You as Senior Firefighters, Officers and Instructors have to lead by example, people learn more by seeing and doing. If you notice a pattern of Firefighters not knowing "the basics" then you need to make sure that they know the basics and this is best done through company or department drills. Instead of spending time complaining about and putting down rookies not knowing the basics...Spend time making sure your personnel are proficient iin what they have to do on the fireground.
Here are a few suggestions to improve on the proficency of not only your junior, mid level and even senior Firefighters establish proficiency standards and make sure all personnel are aware of these standards and that they must stay proficient, Establish a mentor program, pair a senior member with a junior member and make sure they are getting adequate training. The other thing to do is locate and join and encourage your personnel to join your local FOOLS Chapter (Fraternal Order of Leather Heads Society) the training and networking oppurtunities are priceless.
Remember knowledge is power and as Senior Firefighters, Officers and Instructors we have the duty to ensure that everyone in your Company, Department or Class has the knowledge needed to be safe and do the job as needed with skill.
STAY SAFE ALL
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Ed I agree with you very much on the this subject I just finished teaching a class on Large structure and industrial fire fighting and rescue as well as a class on Fire Fighter survival. It took us 3 days to prep this class and as a Instructor I learned and retaught myself as much as a lot of the students learned. I just think a lot of people are forgetting the practice side of this and throwing in a video tape has become a standard of training. Most of our students before the class had a hard time staying on a wall and half entered the building with no tool? They all had Fire 1 & 2. Trust me after 14 hours they know now...
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Permalink Reply by Terry Lambert on
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I know when I went through FF1, we spent we spent alote of time doing search and rescue. Learning how to follow walls, searching rooms properly. How to follow a hose line out of a building. Our insturctor's would make us turn our hoods around so we could not see out of them, they also smoked up the rooms. We had to complete two live burns before we could graduate and get our cert's.
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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Unfortunately thre seems to be only so much time and only so many resources to teach during drill school or training. It becomes up the Capt or senior officers to take over and be sure their firefighters are ready for calls. When I first started on the floor, the first things we went over were proper search, and urban tactics (pump placement, crew jobs, etc). We learned these things in drill school, but the bread and butter techniques and jobs need to be taught repeatedly until they are finally done on the job and become second nature.
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Permalink Reply by Rich on
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I feel it is of the utmost importance to learn the bassics first. In fact my FD will not allow you to take extra classes till you are finished with your FF1, Hands on @ the academy and your in house Probationary period. In fact when we have Hurst tool training, Probies are doin pack training. You are also required to maintain a certain training percentage till you reach 5 years in the department. A minimum of the last wensday of every month is SCBA training. We have the basement of one of our substations turned into a maze. We can move walls, set up areas for quick release, redused profile and well just about anything else you can think of. There are no "Toys", Just you ina blacked out mask with a partner doin bassic search and rescue techniques. RIT is also incorperated. As a probie I have over 135 training points. Trainings over 4 hours are 2 points, under is 1 hour. Lot of work to earn your Black helmet.
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You ever notice that sometimes it is hard to break old habits? When I first joined the department, we were trained (by an old timer) to keep a hand on the wall, and your partner right behind ya. Well over the years of watching video training and taking training classes, I saw the light and trained 1 firefighter arms length from the wall, the firefighter behind one arms length away to the side. You search twice the space in 1/2 the time saving air and energy. Even after beating this to a pulp in training, they still revert back to single file where the second persons nothing but a glorified hose dragger.
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Permalink Reply by Joey Carrow on
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I agree totally.. we have alot of new probies and it just floors me that the new Jones and Bartlett curriculum teaches everything in a class room and out of the book but, no practicle skills are taught and we are supposed to put these people inside as certified ffI and trust they know what to do. What were they thinking?!!! lets kill a few more ffs?
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