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As of this writing, "Drinking in the Fire House" has 287 replies.
"Women in the Fire Service" has 263 replies.
At times, both have become heated, has been argued with passion and are issues that keep coming up over and over again. And nothing NEW is ever said. It's the same thing, just SAID by somebody different.
Are they issues that are important in the larger scheme? In some parts of the country and in some fire departments; yeah, it's still an important issue, because THEY have resisted efforts to establish a national initiative to improve them.
Have you noticed that both topics that I highlight have certain "social" implications?
Drinking is definitely "social" and women in the fire service? Well, we have already seen men fighting over some of them right here on this website. So, there is a social aspect to that as well and if one has the time to check out some of the submitted photos, you will see some social cleavage by those screaming that they wanted to be treated the same as men. I am still looking for a tasteful photo of my upper body to post.
However; I digress. The reason for this post is very simple: we have engaged in endless debate on two issues that are important, but not where the percentage of injuries and death are occurring. When efforts to discuss firefighter safety or scene safety or improving requirements or reducing civilian fire deaths, the discussion thread is lucky to get 10 replies before you hear the crickets.
Why do we-myself included-spend so much time on issues with little national impact and ignore those things that impact us on a daily basis?
I like to have fun and will post a "funny" from time to time, but if we ever expect to change and improve our fire service, we have to engage our brains. We have to think. We have to act.
There are some great blogs being written on a wealth of topics that could help anyone of you, but I have to wonder how many of you read the blogs. From Tiger, FASNY, Mick and Pete; I spend alot of time reading their stuff because it's FREE and it's INVALUABLE.
You could end discussions before they start, if you'd read their blogs. The topic has already been covered by them.
I just think that our priorities are all screwed up. We bitch about how precious our free time is, yet, we are forced to wade through a bunch of mud just to find a little nugget of wisdom.
I need coffee.
TCSS.
Art
"Women in the Fire Service" has 263 replies.
At times, both have become heated, has been argued with passion and are issues that keep coming up over and over again. And nothing NEW is ever said. It's the same thing, just SAID by somebody different.
Are they issues that are important in the larger scheme? In some parts of the country and in some fire departments; yeah, it's still an important issue, because THEY have resisted efforts to establish a national initiative to improve them.
Have you noticed that both topics that I highlight have certain "social" implications?
Drinking is definitely "social" and women in the fire service? Well, we have already seen men fighting over some of them right here on this website. So, there is a social aspect to that as well and if one has the time to check out some of the submitted photos, you will see some social cleavage by those screaming that they wanted to be treated the same as men. I am still looking for a tasteful photo of my upper body to post.
However; I digress. The reason for this post is very simple: we have engaged in endless debate on two issues that are important, but not where the percentage of injuries and death are occurring. When efforts to discuss firefighter safety or scene safety or improving requirements or reducing civilian fire deaths, the discussion thread is lucky to get 10 replies before you hear the crickets.
Why do we-myself included-spend so much time on issues with little national impact and ignore those things that impact us on a daily basis?
I like to have fun and will post a "funny" from time to time, but if we ever expect to change and improve our fire service, we have to engage our brains. We have to think. We have to act.
There are some great blogs being written on a wealth of topics that could help anyone of you, but I have to wonder how many of you read the blogs. From Tiger, FASNY, Mick and Pete; I spend alot of time reading their stuff because it's FREE and it's INVALUABLE.
You could end discussions before they start, if you'd read their blogs. The topic has already been covered by them.
I just think that our priorities are all screwed up. We bitch about how precious our free time is, yet, we are forced to wade through a bunch of mud just to find a little nugget of wisdom.
I need coffee.
TCSS.
Art
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Oh, you're hanging out at the fire house today?
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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No wonder it wouldn't start you have the keys to the Ladder, not the Engine
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Permalink Reply by Mike on
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They told me I could not cruise the engine around to pick up chicks cuz I was drinking. I don't like being a volunteer fireman no more. I guess maybe a career as an ambulance driver is in my future... ambulance attendent...
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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while I respectfully disagree that women in the fire service is a social issue, I do agree that some of the "firefighters" on here would like to make it that.
I completely agree, and sadly I hav noticed that it is the same in the firehalls most days. The conversations are meaningless and go nowhere, we just try to one up each other and no one says anything new. Other days we have some pretty good and often heated political debates (but they are fewer and farther between than the nonsensical conversations).
I also find that the newer crowd tends to care less about where the fire service is going. I find it increasinly difficult to find someone to come to a Union meeting. I have no problems going alone, but it saddens me that guys with very little time on are willing to just let the department take it's course... usually led by those who are leaving in a couple of years (although I love that they have so much experience and some are willing to lead and teach us into the next generation of firefighters).
I have some concerns and I try to post topics that have substance and am looking for input and I get 4 or 5 responses. It is frustrating when, like you said, nonsense threads get more than 100 or 200 posts. Does no one have any input or does no one care about their department and the real issues that are leading us into this bleak apathy.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Well, just today, another firefighter was killed in an apparatus accident. Rollover. He was ejected.
Indications are that a seat belt was not worn. Note that I said "indications are", because the accident remains under investigation.
No one wants to talk about what's killing our firefighters.
They only want to talk about what annoys us.
Bottom line is: if we stop teaching, they will stop learning. We are only willing to teach if they are willing to learn.
There is the belief, notion or attitude that it will all work out in the end.
Yeah; I get chills when I hear the BAGPIPES too!
But I'm not quitting. That would be too easy for me and make it too easy on them.
And I have NEVER been easy. That was just an unfounded rumor.
TCSS.
Art
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lol... I did hear that easy thing! ;) Yes, that is a big issue and a big concern. Some of the guys in my class were very set in their ways already. They already knew that they didn't have to worry about safety, PPE, seatbelts, etc.
So many things confuse me. Are seatbelts that difficult to wear in the rigs? We were sent two separate emails regarding roll overs from the Chief, asking us to please wear our seatbelts, because they roll overs had "happy" endings, everyone survived! HOw many people can say that in a roll over without seatbelts?
As for PPE, how many firefighters do we have to lose to cancer and other work related illnesses in order for someone to realize you are given this for your own protection and longevity. It's not cool to leave your family and friends behind.
Sigh... so many issues. Our city is more concerned with politics, who gets there first, who is able to do what duties and whether or not we should have an enhanced 911 system. We don't even run with a tiered system anymore. It's a mess and there's litigation pending and it's still not being fixed (very long and frustrating story).
As you can see, I am not short on passion. I am short on time on the job. I come from a department where the ink isn't even dry for years. It's tough to say anything, but I am lucky to have a great Capt I can send info and concerns through. We've worked together on a couple of things. I do the research (as does he, but I find him some new contacts and useful info) and he is the mouth! Thank goodness.
Please keep teaching... I am convinced that it eventually sinks in. At least I hope so!
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I have been a firefighter a long time, and I have seen the stats. I have seen multiple accidents in my life, some I relive through each time we get a tone for a MVA. I have never seen an ejection by someone wearing a seat belt (with the exception of one infant in a car seat that wasn't buckled correctly. Baby survived with minor injuries)
Teaching is only the building block for the fire service. We can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink. It takes dedication to practice in the real time what you do on the training grounds. It takes absolute no tolerance policies by fire departments to provide enforcement. (takes 2 seconds to note someone hopping off a truck without a seat belt on.) 25% of LODD's are MVA related, either POV or apparatus, yet some still refuse to buckle up.
50% are related to heart attacks/cardiac arrest, yet fitness is a word used by few.
The remaining 25% of the LODD's are of misc. reasonings. (Fell through the roof, building collapse, inside a fire thats too far gone, lost etc.) Almost ALL of these LODD's we face could be prevented with a simple thing. Training. It takes commitment of all personnel paid and volunteer to commit to training (properly), and then stick to what they are trained. It takes commitment to start and continue a fitness program. It takes commitment to wear your seat belt for anytime your in any vehical, no exceptions. This is common knowledge in my department. We are provided the Training (via a great training officer)
and then continue to commit to doing things the right way in a safe manner. Remember if your the driver YOU are responsible to ensure the occupants are buckled before you move. (VFIS drivers training) If the person next to you isn't buckled, tell them to buckle up, it takes 2 seconds to tell someone, and a lifetime of nightmares if your on the truck that gets into a MVA and your friend, your brother or sister, your fellow firefighter is the one who dies because they didn't buckle, and you saw and didn't say anything.
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Permalink Reply by Mick Mayers on
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I figured it out; we need a thread on women drinking in the firehouse. Maybe even while listening to their Ipods on the way to a call (with their seatbelts on, hopefully).
Art, again, thanks for the excellent post. We'll all just have to work together to keep dragging them away from the bad side of the tracks every now and then and keeping them focused on the task at hand.
By the way, in regard to lurkers and all, I was having a conversation with someone I know today who is neither in the fire service or in any kind of public safety role. Out of the blue, he began telling me he read my blog and brought up the rest of youse guys (and gals) and went on about how much he liked the site. Now mind you, I didn't bring this up or anything so I was a little surprised, but when we say people other than firefighters are watching what you say on here, we aren't kidding. Post smart, people. Big brother is watching.
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Absolutely correct. You can be a non member and view everything, just can not add content.
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Sean:
I had no idea that you posted seeking information.
What would be cool is if any of your friends posts a new discussion thread, you could get the same email notice on threads that we "subscribe" to.
Or next time you are looking for something in particular, send it out to friends. The friends email function is cool.
I used it today, as you know. It took seconds; not minutes.
I have been scanning old photos of the fire department all day. I am putting a history together for a slide show or maybe PowerPoint. It depends on the options; you know, music, animation, etc.
Anyway, it's a given. Time is short. We need our information in bursts.
TCSS.
Art
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