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PASS ALARMS FIRE FIGHTINGS CAR ALARMS
So we all us them and they are a great idea but it seems they are not up to what they are for. How many times do you hear a pass alarm going off and pay no attention because it never stops they are getting to the point no pays any mind because they are going off even when working? Its time we all ask all the manufacturers to look at the fire service through real eyes and lets work together to make a system that works PLEASE I AM GETTING A HEADACHE!!!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by mike wright on
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If the alarm is going on the inside of the house, people best be paying attention. If one of them is going off outside the house and you can see them, then no we dont pay attention to them. With people in the house and alarms are going off people better pay attention. If someone doesnt atleast do a par check then someone isnt doing thier job. They are there for a reason and the reason is that a fire fighter has stopped moving. When inside how many times does it go off with out being stuck. On the outside they go off quit a bit but we can see them standing there. This is the difference between seeing the alarm and not seeing, panic. When we can not see the alarm going off someone had best find out why. With the pass alarms incorporated into the pack they are a saftey tool that if needed may mean life and death so you had best be using them.
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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Although it is common for a PASS device to be going off in a residence, and also at other times when you may not be actively moving it is still important that we investigate the cause. Even in training scenerio's when a PASS device goes off, the firefighters who are wearing the pack are at time completely unknowing it is their pack going off until someone moves over and gives the pack a nudge to shut it up. If they can make air level's broadcast into the mask, why can't they make PASS device activates also in the masks? This would minimize the duration of some PASS devices being set off due to low movement. If your the second person behind the nozzle and you just found fire, your movement can be minimized for a few moments until your able to advance onto the fire.
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Permalink Reply by Dan Hoey on
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I agree with you both and don't get me wrong I am firm believer in use and response but it seems they are becoming less effective. We had a fire the other day and mine went off while moving into the building and lets say I had other things on my mind and sisnt do what I call the pass shake every minute. We have had them looked at batteries changed and still they seem to not work the way they should my fear is how long until someone who needs help gets that help.
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I also know a fire department locally had an issue with their built in PASS devices on Scott 4500 packs. They would eat battaries and go off after less than 3 days. They may wear a pack 3 or 4 times a month. It is possible your PASS devices may need to be looked at Dan. Your right, I would rather have them go off when they are needed.
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Permalink Reply by Marc Hansen on
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Give the manufacturers a little more time and they will probably get the PASS devices right. The integrated PASS we have on our new packs are way better then the 1st generation devices that we had to turn on seperatly from the bottle. With the regulator and PASS device being in the same housing and hanging from a shoulder, and the addition of flashing red light to go with the sound I think the manufactures have got it just about right.
As for the little or no movement, I've learned to constantly make small movements while "on air" to minimize PASS alarms. Most times on the outside just transferring my wieght from one leg to the other. On the inside I'm normally looking around and moving some part of my body every few seconds. Like everything else new and improved over the last 10-15 years we have to learn to make small changes in our individual styles to get the most from our equipment.
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The only issue I have with integrated pass is when packs are off during large salvage and overhaul if times of collapse...yes this is what if but has happened recently
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during salvage and overhaul we still keep packs on, masks can be off but have to be with you. And we still have belt worn PASS devices available.
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Permalink Reply by Curt Varone on
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Are the firefighters letting the technology down, or is the technology letting the firefighters down? While I agree the technology is getting better - I still believe it is the technology that is letting the firefighters down, and not vice versa. It has a ways to go - no doubt. Funny thing - PASS devices are one of those things - if you don't use them (ie. desk jockeys) you can't understand why the line guys have such a big problem with them.
Curt
www.firelaw.biz
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Permalink Reply by Sandy113 on
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One of my instructors for my fire science degree actually told us an interesting story about pass devices once. first, obviously you should not ignore the activation if you do not see who's devices is going off, because it could actually mean someone is down. but heres the story... they were doing training at the local fire academy. the instructor (unknown to everyone else including the officers runing the drill) placed a firefighter upstairs during the drill and told him to activate his pass device. no one noticed it the whole time and when asked to take par at the end, the officer said he had all his firefighters....WRONG ANSWER! bottom line, pass activations need to be treated like the real thing until the alarm is cleared
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that is a genious idea!!! you should send a message to your scba provider!!!
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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If we are ignoring PASS activation, then it's not technology failing us; it's us failing the technology. The only time that I would consider it appropriate to IGNORE a PASS is when you're at the compressor filling it! Otherwise, someone had better be looking for the one that is going off. If you are at a scene, there are four sectors. How would someone in Sector C know if the PASS that they are hearing coming from, let's say, Sector A isn't a legitimate activation without investigating or getting a sit-rep from someone in that sector? A lack of motion and high heat activates them. If you have people standing outside the structure and their devices are going off, then they are wasting air. They shouldn't be hooked up. If they aren't hooked up, then integrated devices shouldn't be going off. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you are still using NON-integrated (Sur-Pass, etc) devices, then you are not compliant.
I will admit that they aren't perfect, but they are still evolving. In the meantime, we had better take every activation seriously, because the one time we don't will be the one time that we wish we had.
TCSS.
Art
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Chief
Respectfully - I cannot recall a single fire since we acquired the integrated pass alarms - where I have not heard multiple pass alarms going off. It is a constant false alarm problem... not occasional. Like Dan said to start the discussion off - it is the fire service equivalent of a car alarm going off - they go off so much that no one pays much attention. What is the story about crying wolf.......
I am not suggesting that we should ignore the alarms..... but there is a problem that is not being addressed because too many people are dismissing it by blaming the firefighters. That's not fair to them. There is a problem that should be addressed.
Curt
www.firelaw.biz
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