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Collapse Rescue Operations
The section of the building is part of a larger block area extending along the Bravo and Delta sides.
There appears to be a V-shaped collapse of the roof with structural compromise into the third floor. You're advised that there are at least 36 occupants living in the primary structure. The first floor has a commercial establishment (neighborhood Bar & Restaurant), the second and third floors are apartments. There is a debris pile on the sidewalk in front of the structure ( Alpha side). Some occupants are observed self extricating and appearing in the street or in window areas. There is no evidence of any visible fire or smoke at the time of your arrival. What are you going to do?
What is your immediate priority and needs?
What are the first five steps in your Incident Action Plan (IAP)?
Assuming you have a least a first alarm assignment consisting of Three (3) Engine Companies; One (1) Truck Company; One (1) Heavy Rescue Company, the Battalion Chief and a Safety Officer either on scene or enroute;
How will you deploy and utilize your resources?
What will you need?
What are the safety considerations?
How long do you plan to operate at the scene? (Logistics and Planning)
What is the risk profile of the building(s)?
What will change IF a fire abruptly erupts from the rear first floor?
Now get to work…...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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How would unified command improve this?
Public works would be assigned to operational teams.
Red Cross would be assigned to logistics.
The Mayor would be assigned a liaison, but wouldn'take over the operation.
EMS - works forIC initially, then the Ops Manager.
The Ops Manager would be automatic when we go to operational periods, if the position had not already been established.
Span-of-control for this incident is exactly the same regardless of whether Command is one person or three. The span of control would be 4 - Operations, Logistics, Planning, and Finance/Administration. Staging and the Command Staff are specialty resources and don't count against the span of control. NIMS span of control refers to the number of people supervised by Command and each subordinate level. It does not refer to the number of people in a Unified Command group.
I understand the MABAS system, but most places don't have that system and it's not necessary to have it in order to resolve the incident.
In this case, I agree with Chris. This responseis more about getting additional USAR resources if you can't quickly resolvethe problem. Lots non-USAR resources past the 2nd alarm may or may not be useful here, depending on local/regional resource specialization.
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We'd probably want one eventually, but what you'll hear from most structural engineers is "the building is unsafe, don't put anyone in it". Most structural engineers don't understand the concept of relative risk that fire-rescue practices every day.
If you have a USAR-trained structural engineer that understands relative risk, then it's a different story.
There have been several structural collapse incidents where a structural engineer has told the IC that the building was unsafe to enter and the IC (fire-rescue chief) told the engineer that the chief, not the engineer was in Command, and that a rescue would be attempted unless it was certain that the rest of the building was coming down. Structural engineers are there for their structural expertise, not for operational decision-making.
My USAR team is lucky. We are a Type II team with no structural engineer position. However, one of our neighboring departments has a Deputy Chief that has an architectural engineering degree. Having him gets us the best of both worlds - operational and structural expertise.
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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Sorry, I got U/C on the brain. I read everything, but quickly, was it mentioned how the roof collapsed? With no place to go after fire/rescue, well this one is probably border line, but let me try to tell what I was thinking. I believe you do need public works, lot of city issues here. Mayor, good PIO, but your right may be better to keep him out. EMS, didn’t I see something about 30+ victims, that will tax anyone, they need to represented, but would depend on how your system is set up, together or separate. Red Cross, stupid me, I was thinking displaced people but would still be logistics, maybe it was the coffee. Span n control, my fault again, I was looking at first in IC and thinking he has way too much to do. Anyways good info. As for MABAS, and yes only a few states do, everyone should, it plays a couple of rolls for us. First off you need to think beyond fire, how about a TRT card, or specialty card for troubles like this. BTW the only difference between TRT and USAR is the amount of equipment, TRT personal are trained to the same level, at least around here. MABAS has funded training and equipment for over 40 teams and that many more in hazmat. I can make 1 call, to dispatch and have 5, 10 man fully equiped teams here within an hour. We have fire, hazmat, TRT and an oh-shit card, that’s the one that activates all the resources in the state.
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Trainer,
If there are 30+ patients, it's definately a MCI. However, a medical group working for the IC (initial stages) or Operations Manager (prolonged incident) can handle them.
The NIMS Medical Group configuration is 4 supervisors - A Medical Group Supervisor with Triage, Treatment, and Transport officers working for Medical. Once the patient transport issues are handled, the EMS part of the incident is over except for treating the few remaining trapped patients that are accessible and running Rehab. One reason for Fire-Rescue being in charge is that IC is in charge of the scene. The scene doesn't leave when the patients do.You're right about the IC having too much to do on this incident. That's why the IC has to develop strategy and let subordinates manage tactics. If the IC micromanages tactics, then he IS going to have too much to do. The entire point of NIMS, ICS, and UC is about choosing the structure that best fits the incident. All of it is about helping the IC break down one huge, unmaneagable incident into smaller, more manageable pieces.
As for MABAS, the box card for my department would look like this:
"King Neptune, do you have a 2nd alarm assignment for us?"
We cover a barrier island in the Atlantic Ocean with one nearby mutual aid department and a single bridge access. The neighbors we have are very good ones, but we're separated by water barriers and distance.
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Mutual aide box alarm system. This is what we have in Illinois, and some surrounding states, takes MA a step farther. Currently we have about 97% of the depts. in the state that belong. It starts with a document that everyone signs keeping all liability with you. Make any sense? In most MA agreements this is a little sketchy. We are then broke down into divisions, currently 63, mainly by county with 1 person from each div holding a seat on the board. It standardizes response, no more 1 truck and 15 guys, when you call for an eng, tender, rescue you know exactly what’s coming. It has also funneled a lot of federal money for training and equipment down to everyone, somewhere around 75 mil in the last 6 years. I’ll give you the web site, but don’t laugh, it’s kinda old, they will have a new server up by the first of the year. www.mabas.org This is also why we can respond to disasters 900 miles away, be ready in 24hrs for a 2 week deployment, with 600 FF and 150 pieces of apparatus.
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Good point. Around here we have a large private provider(EMS transport) that also work’s with surrounding ambos, that is why we include in UC. Ok hears one for you, try to get that commander to give up operations, it just not in their blood.
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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Thanks guys- never heard the acronymn- will check out the website later today...
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For how to do this right, look at Oklahoma City FD's response to the Murrah Building bombing.
They set up a national-level response with single command, and they never relinquished it. They also rotated Command among different chiefs and used operational periods.
The way to get the commander to give up operations is to a) have a department SOG that mandates that IC and Operations are two different roles, and spell out those roles, NIMS style. Then train, train, train on it.
If in MABAS or a similar mutual aid system, this can be written into the mutual aid MOU or contract as well.
Commanders that depend on their ego and/or micromanagement for success become very ineffective commanders as soon as the incident size, scope, or complexity exceeds their level of expertise or micromanagerial ability.
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Interesting, I would guess that FBI or ATF would have taken command at some point, but it was a long recovery, still once it goes to recovery? I don’t think today, fire would hold command that long. My point was any good commander will struggle with relinquishment, but will do it, 100 bucks says they go scene-side at least one more time, not to micromanage, it’s just a tough transition.
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Trainer,
The initial commander doesn't have to relinquish command. He can appoint an Operations Manager to run the Operations Branch, then maintain Command through the end of the first operational period.
As for the FBI or other law enforcement agency taking command at OK City, they did...after the rescues were complete, the building was completely shored, and all of the bodies that could be recovered prior to the explosive demolition were recovered. The FBI tried to take command on arrival, but there was no legal mechanism for them to do so at the time. The FEMA Director eventually ruled (with Presidential backing) that the local fire department was the proper place for Command as long as there was a life safety or building stability problem. Once those were dealt with, Command was transitioned to the FBI for the investigation.
Back to the scenario above, there is no need for law enforcement in command or as part of UC unless there's evidence that the collapse was the result of terrorism or a crime. Now, the FBI is in Command of all domestic terrorism incidents, but the one above looks like an old building that just fell down.
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