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Chief On Scene; Working Residential with Trapped Civilians
You’re the Company Officer (or Acting Officer) on the first-due Engine Company. Chief's on scene with a working fire in a single story wood frame residential occupancy. Confirmed by neighbors that there is an elderly female confined to a wheelchair in the residence possibly with a second resident. Hydrant is near the house as you arrive.
The house was built within the past year. Discuss your immediate actions and why. What’s your assignments based upon a (very liberal) five person crew. ( you weren’t short staffed today). What are your safety concerns, what’s the level of risk to your personnel and where a you going to go first? Where is your crew going to go first? Assuming a second due Engine Company is still 5 minutes out, with the Truck Company being heard in the distance. If you assume the Command Officer’s role; What’s your Incident Action Plan (IAP)? What’s the risk/benefit profile? What are your concerns for the occupants? For the firefighters? (Are you sweating yet?) “Affirmative; Engine, your on scene, now lets get to work”
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Randy on
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i would drop a line at the hydrant and have my next in engine company make the connection. i would then split my crew 2 on a hand line and 2 to do a search while the officer of the piece does his 360 and gets the updates also looking for a second means of egress. depending on the size of the truck crew really doesnt look like there is any need to ventilate do to the fire already self ventilating. i would have them set up for rit.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Compton on
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The Fire is free burning and certainly got a head start. The volatile black smoke and sure size of the flames is an indicator to me that GPM put out BTU. I would order1st due engine to lay their own LDH and then knocked it down with a deck gun dump your tank this going to be a trash fire soon. this has already self vented -smoke indicates that the wind is going to help push it through the attic. Second due pull 2 1/2 head to the front door Truck Co OIC and FF head to front door to force entry and search after 2 1/2 is charged Shut down deck gun. Before entry if condition allow. This is all speculatory off two picture makes you think
thou
I am fortunate to have 4 engine (3) men each a Truck Co with (4) Command (2) and a Medic (2)
I have 20 men respond to every residential house fire. I am blessed compared to some.
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Permalink Reply by Joel C Kelley on
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I think that those who are suggesting ventilation are thinking about horizontal from the delta side to force products of combustion away from any trapped vics. Obviously, this fire has self vented vertically, and nobody seems to think that vertical venting is a viable option at this operation.
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Permalink Reply by misfit24medic on
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i got to agree with checking conditions inside, i would send a crew in with 1 3/4" and if it seems that the fire is actually still mostly in the garage, try to push it back out of the house and knock it down some.
if the conditions are showing that there is limited chance of survial then search becomes secondary ecspecially with the scenario saying the truck is close.
my first choice of action is to try and knock as much of it down as fast as possible to try to creat safer operating conditions be it inside or outside for the rest of my crews
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Permalink Reply by Donald on
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My size up from the photo:
Heavy smoke from eaves over living area indicating fire is likely in the attic. The garage is a loss; however, actions must be taken to remove it as a source of heat driving the fire through the remainder of the structure. Not actually being able to do a walkaround (or see photos of entire home) intital plan would be:
Connect to hydrant with 4" LDH and position first engine (E1) to the right of the involved structure. Crew of two (A1) would deploy 1 3/4 handline and make entry into the bedroom window followed by second crew of two (A2) who would begin search operations with aid of TIC. A1 would advance into the structure seeking to drive any fire found back into the garage area, thus protecting A2. Pump operator (A3) initiates a blitz on the garage with truck mounted deck gun. Second arriving engine (E2) will position in the driveway of the neighbor (right back in photo) connecting a 4" LDH supply line to the first in engine - Our area hydrants are supplied by one line single direction flow making a second hydrant hook ineffective. E1 will provide water to E2 which will deploy additional 1 3/4" handline with crew (B1) making entry from the rear of the home. E2 second crew (B2) will enter same point initiating search for residents. All units were advised to have radios on tac 2 and should be able to make contact inside. Additional arriving personnel will be assembled with crews established to back up each entry point. EMS has arrived with additional EMS in route. We would have a Medical Chopper in route as well due to our distances from Hospital in excess of 20 miles. One firefighter would establish a landing zone. ( I am assuming the occupant did not get out and received injuries). The rest would be determined based on reports to IC from inside.
My observations: Garage is gone. Heavy black smoke from eaves of living area; however, windows do not show signs of heavy smoke in living area leading me to believe that the fire is venting into the attic space or is consuming it. Either way time is short before this roof is gone. The fire on the roof above the window is simple extesion of the fire across the shingles due to radiant heat and direct flame contact. My guess based on the photo is that fire extension is minimal at this point, smoke will be moderate but building quickly. The vented garage is likely helping draw the fire FROM the living area and forced ventilation in addition to handlines may assist in pushing the fire to stay at the garage area slowing extension into the living area. My experience says the roof pitch is a good thing in this case. It will give some additional time before collapse as the weight distribution is more vertical than horizontal. It may be possible to vent the roof over the living area but safety concerns would not permit me to allow it unless an interior report indicated conditions were not as bad as they probably should be based on the pictures.
Did anyone notice the liquid running down the driveway? It is not (or no longer) burning. What could it be? Is it the trail left from an arsonist pour line? Do we need a haz mat team to keep it out of the storm sewers? And if we were actually that chief would we see it, would we think about it, or would we just take care of the fire?
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Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on
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We saw the liquid, there isn't a lot of it, its probably evaporating. It isn't burning. But there is enough of it left that it probably wan't on fire or it would still be burning or a burned out path. We decided earlier that it is likely water from a melted water pipe in the garage. It could possibly be coolant from the radiator of the vehicle.
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Even if it was a pour line, the fire is still the primary priority, isn't it? I can't really see a crew of five standing around the gutter debating whether to call in hazmat, or whether is is a pour line from an arsonist. Get the fire knocked and make the grab, those are the operational priorities.
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and if it was a pour line it wasn't a very good arsonist
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Permalink Reply by capt dennis on
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well i would call commandand do my 360 to check out the situation and to see if they got to the deck now if they did master stream from ladder truck or duluge gun and try to knock it down that way but if they didnt get out the first and formost is firefighter safety now if i have 5 on first in this is how i would handel it first get that eng set up and get a supply line from that hydrant call for my utiletys and any mutialaid companys i have to start them to the scene 1 on the pump 2 on the outside and 2 in the door and start search and rescue with a charged inch an and half then i would switch to what is a called a working command witch is where the ic is acting on outside attack or interior or search and rescue cause that next company or mutialaid company's comeing you never know what could happen to them heaven forbid a accident break down what ever but once and if all company arrive then i would switch off a working command to setting up saftey officer / rit team / and water supply if needed and focuse on the seat of the fire and gain control and protect any exposure issues now one thing concerns me the most is the roof it dame well is ready to come in on the garage but in the same token i am thinking if there is anyone in there now they are probely gone sad to say and is probely going to be body or body,s recovery but you still have to try if it safe enough now that crew i sent in should be abel to get in and do search in under 10 to 15 mins by hopefuly because if they can,t the pt,s in side will be gone cause of lapsed time and fire growth but that is my look and the way i would do it
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Permalink Reply by Todd on
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Couple of things I would try to rule out.
1) Blitz Attack with deck gun... My fear is pushing fire, smoke, and combustible gases on to any savable victims. I doubt there is a fire wall in the attic in a single Type V however that is something to remember in a double. I strongly believe in blitz attacks however victim presense and location are needed to know.
2) VES... With this much consuption of the building "drawing" the fire is really a moot point because the interior of the structure is fully charged with smoke. Suppression efforts would be limited initially due to manpower and not yet arriving units. On a smaller fire, VES is very acceptable, not here however.
3) Knock Down with 2 1/2" on exterior. I believe this is going to be the best option. Large amount of fire however a 2 1/2" intially on the exterior followed by a 1 3/4" attackline interior protecting search crew.
One thing to remember. Savable Victims. I'm not so sure we could make a save here without a major risk. A risk we might not want to take to begin with. If the firefighters are concerned with entry with PPE and SCBA then what is worth saving on the other side.
Other safety issues: Trusses... fail in 5-7 minutes, water supply, additional support compaines not yet on scene.
Be Careful- this could be a firefighter killer and for what? I feel this is a loser before you got out of the bay.
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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Well lets get outside this box for just a second. We are here to 1: Save lifes and 2: Protect property. So with this said, you have a water supply out front and 5 personell on the first due engine with the truck in the back ground coming up. How about the MPO grabs the hydrant while officer does a walk around. As the CO I would have 2 personell stretch an 1 3/4 handline with smooth bore to the front door and get it flaked out. I would have my other rider hop on top and have the MPO give him or her some water, quick little blitz KD, have that member come down after approx 20-30 seconds of water on the seat of the fire. Findinig nothing on the walk around that caught my eye meet up with the members at the door, stretch in with them, the deck gun FF, follows line in, he and the knob FF hold and check fire while my self and the other FF search for vics. Buy this time the truck is there and they can both assist with search and make sure the jakes on the line are in good shape or need assistance.
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No, I am all about blitz but not with possible victims. I would entertain the idea of knocking it down with half a tank and finishing it off with attack lines. My fear is if there is any victims that are viable we would finish them off by blitzing. I agree, there is probably no savable victims but I would still do a 360' and get bystander info before doing the blitz. I just don't want to take the chance of someone viable in there and blitzing. If we confirm no viable victims or victims at all, blitz! But if victim presence if determined, I think option 3 as listed before will be the best option. Knockdown with 2 1/2" and protect interior search crew with 1 3/4".
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