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An interior attack team with 2 guys and thats it.
I took a command class last year and one of my instructors showed use a video clip of a bid city department that showed up to a structure fire in the city, and there was the engine driver and passenger, they got out and rung a hydrant that was next door to the hose that was on fire after that one guy get the hose brought up to the home while the other guy gets the water going and they both pack up and go into this smoke filled home together and there's no one left outside, and this was all done in the matter of minutes, it looked like it was maybe an older video but the instructor said that this still happens in big city. I just wanted to know if this still happens out there and if so why? The city that was featured in this video was Chicago...........................sorry Brian.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by FyreCapt on
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This still happens in California. I worked for a Large Dept. that had only two FF's on the engine and your were expected to do the same amount of work. Dangerous, you bet! But when a city says we aren't going to pay for more FF's what options do you have?
Yea, let the structure burn to the ground... not my home right? Well, i'm sure the homeowner feels differently. When homes burn to the ground here in Ca. due to the wildland fires, people start saying, the firemen were slow or they didn't protect my home, they were sitting in chairs watching the fire! Come on, we all know that just isnt so.
Point is, some depts. just dont have some luxuries that other depts may have, and they do the best job they can with what they have. Good luck guys
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Permalink Reply by Damon Dyer on
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He has got you there T.J. .
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Permalink Reply by Bill on
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Not in our neck of the woods in the Northwest. That would definitely be grounds for suspension and discipline. Even if there is a KNOWN rescue, we have to leave one outside. If no rescue then two in and two out. No value in the risk for saving STUFF!!! I am responsible to make sure that my crew goes home after every shift.
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Permalink Reply by Dave on
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After reaing more of the post...I am glad I live in Boston!! You're there to protect Life and property. The crime is putting only two guys on a piece, but if thats all you have...you have to make do. 10am pulling up to a building with two people or 3am, does it matter? you have to suspect people are in the building until proven otherwise..MEANING by performing a search. Whats the safest way to perform a search...by running lines to protect those that are searching and putting the fire out!! Standing outside the building while you wait for a second truck to come in would really suck if you find a family of 4 dead. The 2 in 2 out was meant to protect us but whenpeoples lives on the line...you have to act.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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So what you're saying, Dave is that at ALL fires people's lives (not FFs) are on the line? Meaning, a building is ALWAYS inhabited until you search and determine otherwise?
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Thats is exactly right!! Vacants can and do have people living in them. Fire at 10am can have a night worker sleeping in them, may have a child home sick from school. You dont know until you search, cant search sittng on the piece waiting. Only when the building has been searched and found to have noone inside can you call the building empty. Fire blowing out every window...you gotta use your head. Smoke from the back kitchen or bathroom, get your butt in there, put the fire out and do that search.
A few weeks ago we had a fire at 11am on a weekday, first due engine company was stilled to the location.On our stills for a central station alarm we get a 1 and 1. Meaning 1 engine and 1 ladder. On this fire the second due truck was sent because the first due truck was on another run, so they had been delayed. upon arrival the engine reported smoke showing all three floors, they ran a line to the front door and made entry, they potected the stairwell so the 18 occupants on the two upper floors could get out via self rescue. Had this engine company not gone to work with the crew they had this could have been ugly. Point is, no matter the time and day...all buildings should be treated as occupied until proven otherwise.
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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well it very well might of been, I'll e-mail the instructor and see if he can find me the video again
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Permalink Reply by Capt.Alex Arnold on
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Our safety should be number one, but this job entails risk. The public expects that from us. It comes down to one simple fact, Risk alot to save alot. Risk little to save little. I can recall of a fire in a neighboring jurisdiction. It is a volunteer district. The call was early afternoon on a weekday. The first rig on scene was a 300 gallon rescue rig. Initial size-up was of a structure fire smoke showing. The firefighter on board wanted to make a quick search. He has been with the district for about 4 years. The engineer, with over 12 years "experience" wasn't going to have any part of that and would not let his partner even chack the entry points. The house ended up fully engulfed and was a complete loss. During overhaul they found the homeowner 6' away from the main entrance. Coroner results state that he died from inhalation not the fire. This happens to many times across the country. If a complete entry is not going to be made we need to remember to check the egress locations. This story could have possibly, I say possibly, had a different ending. Remember risk is our business. Calculate the risk, and take the appropriatte action! Yes like always be safe, take that calculated risk when necessarry, and learn something new today.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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This is a loaded question now-a-days as we are subjected to the 2-in 2-out rule and adequate resources. Seeing that it is a non-funded mandate and we in the fire service just love them. The "life safety" exception was added to 2 in 2 out, stating we can enter to perform a rescue if there is a known life safety issue and deemed safe enough by the FD. This was a political addition so the FD would not have an excuse when the public wanted an answer as to why we waited to enter the structure and someone died.
The fireground is constantly changing and never the same for any of us. Thus no matter what you say you would do, can be validated by the persons thought process given a set of information that was available before making his/her entry.
With that said, brothers have died doing this, some here have suggested going for the grab and not performing fire attack or any ventilation. This happened in Keouk, Iowa where 3 brothers and 3 children perished. Our brothers were truly heroes that day, rescued and removed two of the three children but died from a flashover when they returned to finish the primary search for the third child. Vent for life... these brothers suffered the ultimate fate from a fire that started on the stove...
I personally have seen this scenario used at promotional processes after Keouk and life safety does supercede the 2 in 2 out rule now-a-days, take in all of the information possible and make a educated decision whether a successful grab can be made within certain stages of a fire.
Stay safe... Godspeed the Keouk-3
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