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Permalink Reply by Paul H on January 6, 2008 at 10:14pm

You might try checking this website out: http://www.imsalliance.com/incident-boards/index.asp It has all the incident control boards you would ever need... We use PASSPort with an IC master board that is velcro based. Each FF passes their individual tags en route to the scene, one set stays in the engine, the Officer takes their Pass Collection tag to IC when reporting for their assignment. IC moves the Collection tag from assignment to assignment during the face to face. We ALWAYS do face to face assignments, and it's only the officer of the apparatus who reports to IC - personnel remain at the apparatus or the assignment until the Officer of the apparatus returns.

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Permalink Reply by ILDisasterEMT on January 6, 2008 at 10:17pm

I dont want to beat this horse any further, but if you look at my last couple of posts, you see that ICS priorities are as follows:

1. Saving Lives
2. Mitigation of Incident
3. Preservation of Property....this always comes last.

If you think about it, its kind of like a motor vehicle crash. First you want to save the driver. Doing this may involve putting out an engine fire, cribbing the wheels (mitigation) and then you worry about his Dodge Viper...after you have cut the posts and rolled the roof.

Actually what you said in your last post clarified alot of things. At first it seemed as though you were talking about any MCI, now I see that you mean a house fire, but the order of operations with ICS still hold in the first, second and third priority.

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Permalink Reply by steven mcgilbery on January 7, 2008 at 7:41pm

Ok like i said in another post i am not re-invinting anything, just a simple chart so you can orginize your scene and not have people running around with their head cut off...oh let me guess, that is why there is NIME.....DING DING correct for 100 pts......maybe i should ask does nims have a chart like this?????? i did not know this was going to bring all this on, it was a simple question just asking for ideas to add....not all this preaching about nims this and nims that, i understand about nims do not need all the you should do this b/c this is how nims does it....if nims jumped off a bridge i guess all of you retards would do it to b/c that is the way nims does it!!!!! that is my 2 cents pluse some more for this simple question that i brought up....gonna let it rest now...thanks and be safe!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Ron Graner on January 7, 2008 at 10:07pm

Steve
The tone of your several replies to those you asked for input to assist in development of a tool that is a matter of routine operation for most departments should be a red flag for the safety of those who might work under your leadership.
This forum is intended to help improve the safety in the fire service by sharing knowledge and experiences not for name calling because of frustration by someone with very little experience and obviously little command training at this point in his career.
I urge you totake a look at the experience and background of those who offered you assistance and value their input.
For your own career development and for the safety of those you work with, I urge you to continue your career development with an open mind and a willingness to listen to others (including those who serve under you)
Stay safe

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Permalink Reply by mike wright on January 7, 2008 at 10:15pm

Our system is a cheap way of doing it. We bought a cheap dry erase board and make a new chart on it for every scene so it is customized. Then we put on rings through the edge of it for our ID tags to track us. It works for us, but it may not work for you.

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Permalink Reply by steven mcgilbery on January 7, 2008 at 10:28pm

Thanks Mike, see that is what i am lookin for.....as for Ron, i agree i had a tone on the last post, that is b/c people keep saying i am trying to invent something that is out there, if it is out there tell me not preach that i should read up on NIMS and so on, just make suggestions that is all i was looking for, I agree i do not have the experience in the comand structure, that is why i am here asking for ideas for the chart i made up, i don't care if it is out there if it is tell me your ideas that can make it better and make me better at the command thing not tel me well this is how nims does it that tells me nothing!!! IDEAS is all i was looking for, and sorry about the name calling, but when you are looking for something and people don't get that after how many post and all they keep saying is read nims read nims, do like nims, well tell me nims, tell me there chart ideas or what i can add...is it that hard???? Thanks again for all your help

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Permalink Reply by ILDisasterEMT on January 8, 2008 at 4:34am

First off, ICS is part of NIMS. What you asked about was some kind of way of making your IC structure known to your fire fighters, emts, etc. What you got was exactly what you asked for. You asked if ICS has charts like what you are looking for. Yes, it does. In spades. If you take ICS 100, 200 and 700 you will see the chart over and over again. But it doesnt do any good for you just to know there is a chart out there or simply to copy is an plug things into it. You have to understand the system. And as for your attitude about NIMS this and ICS that, I would say that you should get used to it. As I said before, probably by 2010 or 2011, every emergency response agency in the country will be required to be ICS compliant in order to received federal and state funding. So its not just a matter of having a chart. You have to know the system and know WHY it works the way it does. Its been developed over almost 30 years. A simple wall chart aint gonna get 'er done. The classes I mentioned are free through FEMA/DHS Emergency Management Institute and I cant see any reason at all why every single emergency responder wouldnt take a few hours to take these courses. What these courses and ICS in general does is eliminate the guess work in a far better way than a simple chart. If you actually take the classes and learn the material and require your fire fighters to do the same thing, you wont need a chart because people will understand already what to do and when an incident, any incident, occurs, everyone will already be ahead of the game because they will know what to do. Can the classes be boring. You bet ya. I just took one today and thought my brain was going to fall out. But if you are a fire fighter or a supervisor, you have a responsibility to give your community 110% and ICS is how you are going to be able to do that.

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Permalink Reply by steven mcgilbery on January 8, 2008 at 1:31pm

Like i said people preaching take it take it, i have taken it and prolly need to go back over it i admit that!! So let me get this right if you have a incident i'll make it simple a house fire, with 6-8 companys onlocation you are going to remember by memory who is where and doing what and who did what 30-45 min down the line, i think NOT!!! now lets say you have a wild fire with 300-400 ppl onlocation you can remember e erything that happened and did what 2 hrs down the line...whatever!!! this is where the chart comes in, a simple chart, not a nims chart with the liason and all the other stuff you need for a 5-6-10 hr incident like a wildfire or hazmat....get where i am going???? a simple thing saying 45 mins into the scene you can look at your chart and say oh e-3 did ventalation now they are done now they can go to rehab, or they are in rehab for 20 min now ready for another assignment......thanks

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Permalink Reply by Ron Graner on January 8, 2008 at 5:03pm

Steve
You asked for forms that you can use so without trying to tick you off, I recommend that you go to the following site to check out the large number of well developed forms that do exist to handle the tasks you seek to do:
http://www.nimsonline.com/download_center/index.htm#forms
Further, and I deeply apologize if this offends you, however, I feel compelled to note the following for you one more time from the top because I really fear that there are points being made by many in this discussion that you appear not to fully understand enough to be able to prepare the tools your department needs within a system that might work to save the lives of those you lead:
Certainly what happens in the first 20 - 45 minutes is vital to manage from the start and firefighters have died during that time frame so the first arriving officer must initiate a management action that you talk about. However, it is vital that the initial work must be able to be picked up readily by successive arriving officers of higher rank.
Yes, there are lots of forms and computer programs that have been developed by many departments and companies over the years that work. If you never go to a mutual aid incident it really does not matter what form or system you use as long as every member of the responding agency is aware of the system.
However, the reality of life is that every incident has the potential to grow out of the ability of one agency to manage. Even locally when your department responds, you probably have local police and EMS utility companies, support such as Red Cross, Water services, etc also responding. Every person that comes on your scene needs to be singing from the same hymn book of incident management so it is vital that every agency trains and practices to whatever system your agency uses.
ICS, NIMS and all the vast variety of incident management, incident coordination formats are SYSTEMS that every person working at any incident large or small from rooky ff to chief of the department and city manager must be aware of to assure the life safety of those working the incident as well as those needing help.
Every management system needs to be able to expand from what you do in the first 5 minutes to what could be happening hours or days later if the incident expands to that higher level.
The growth in ICS, NIMS etc over the past 30 years has provided the tools that can be utilized by every responder.
Please learn from this discussion that you initiated in hopes of making your people safer.

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Permalink Reply by steven mcgilbery on January 8, 2008 at 5:26pm

you did not tick me off, that is what i am looking for, but i looked at them and not really what i am looking for, seems to me they are catered to "Wildfire" stuff. since yall don't like my chart for a house fire give me what you would use....say you have 6 companys onlocation tell me what you would do? and keep track of them, would you write them donw by unit # and what they are doing, or just keep it in your head, tell me how NIMS would do it....thanks

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Permalink Reply by Erin Davis on January 12, 2008 at 1:36am

I wasnt really making up catergories , but working of one of our current wildfire forms we use in our Department in Fire Management services. We use these in a wildfire situation and our presribe burn programme. I thought he was after suggestions. Fighting fires in the forests and and native bushlands is very differnt. Erin

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Permalink Reply by Danny on January 12, 2008 at 3:03am

Well as i have gone through here and read it seems like most are really reaching out farther than doing just the basic first to second alarm fire. I understand that you have gone through the ics and nims classes..ok great but has the chief officers or the ones using this chart that you are creating had the same training and going to understand what you have created for your dept use. since everyone needs to be on the same page of how the system works. I wasnt able to look at the sheet you have created. Just keep it simple and to the point. we use the ics status boards they are easy to use and if you take some of the stuff off of there and create your own board to fit your dept use. I have a status board so if you want pics of it to get and idea let me know i will snap some and email them to ya. We use the boards on your basic house fire, wildland fire and if there is and incident that has more than a few apparatus its great to use them for tracking them and the personnel. I think you should keep the form simple so that way the ic is not trying to create a book while trying to manage the scene. good luck n keep the team safe.

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