On every single car accident? Sounds like a waste of resources. Some people on here don't know how to look at other departments and think their way is the only way. I work in a large city. 99% of our accidents are under 25 mph and a waste of time to respond to anyway. We probably respond to 50+/day easily. Why charge a hose line for that. If there's an extrication then sure but for a fender bender? Please. It won't blow up, trust me.
Some of the EMS only people don't even have bunker gear to my knowledge.
correction ...charged hose line on all cut jobs.
sorry bout that
Good day all,
I had a good read of all the postings and seem to find some conflicting bits of information.
When I look at bunker gear, I would only use that for structual fires. If you say you ALWAYS wear bunker gear on EVERY call, then I see you creating more of a personal hazard within certian situations.
I see bunker gear as being designed for fighting fires, excluding wildland fires. Some will say that you need the bunker gear for the aspect of sharps protection, so then what your saying is that it's ok to not properly cover your cuts and sharp edges and let teh $2,500 bunker gear take the abuse?
I can see Nomex coveralls being used for everything except structure, industrial and aircraft fires. Nomex coveralls to be used in Wildland, High Angle, Confined Space, medical calls, Water operations, HAZ-MAT and yes .... vehicle extrication. Think of the movement you get when wearing Nomex coveralls and reduction of heat exhaustion associated with wearing them.
If you are arguing about flames and such .... how many of you who are commenting wear VX gloves? Are they flame resistant like your fire gloves?
I also see in Vehicle Extrication competitions that the majority of competitors wear the Nomex coveralls (jumpsuit) and it seems to have gained popularity there. Why do we wear one type of gear for competitions and say it works great, but discount it when we are out doing the job?
Looking for your comments as this seems to be a real issue with some and to have a better understanding of why we wear the gear we do instead of just wearing it because that is what we have always done.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Fully agree with you on many points. I also like when people comment about PPE, then you see a fire helmet on the hood or roof of a car because they can't fit that traditional helmet into the car when they are doing Pt care or unlocking a door from the inside.
jitter man said:
Well I have read many of the replies and found a lot of good responses. They referenced fires and they referenced visibility. The big thing I found common in all of them was safety. That is what we look for in the fire service today, taking care of yourself and your fellow firefighter.
I now would like to ask a couple of questions if I might. What is it everyone said they wear? Structural Fire fighting gear. Do we need that vapor barrier? Do we need that thermal barrier on a roadway that reaches temperatures above 120 degrees F? What if the car lights off meaning it catches fire? Are you lungs safe from a flash fire? No I do not think so. Am I saying no gear ? no I am saying as many of you have protect the scene, but possibly an engine crew have gear on with airpacks. There is new gear out there such as NFPA 1951 USAR gear that has flash protection in it. Possibly look at this for your extrication crews. I wish we would on our department? I have seen in 27 years many people be overcome from heat exhaustion. Also I have seen many people take off their gear to make access so really if we are honest with ourselves we take a lot of it off during the extrication or during patient care.
I am not a sales person for the new gear and with budgets the way they are it is hard to justify another set of gear. However it is a safe and smart alternative to what we are doing. Also remember the bloodborne pathogens we deal with on accidents, are you cleaning your firefighting gear after mva calls?
Just conversation for the dinner table. Thanks for letting me say a few words.
GOD BLESS AND BE SAFE!
Our rural Dept outfitted all personnel with lightweight Tecgen gear, a little spendy (about 1/4-1/3 cost of a set of bunker gear), but certified for extrication and wildland so can be worn for both! This gear will handle approx 90% of the calls we run - mostly MVAs (we have 2 highways in district) & now wildland fires. Gear bags were bought for structural gear and everyone must bring their bags on calls if it's not a structure fire call (just in case). Have heard nothing but good reviews from my crews about the Tecgen gear, esp while working MVAs.
Joe Stoltz said:
Our SOP is for everyone to wear full PPE at all MVAs. PPE generally is structure fire gear, however a few years ago we outfitted EMTs with lighter weight Nomex gear with crosstech vapor barrier for protection against BBPs. The lighter gear consists of jacket, pants and rescue helmet. It makes climbing into and inside of a car less of a chore, although I find myself just staying with my regular bunker gear.
Those directing traffic wear reflective vests in warm weather, but in winter we encourage them to suit up in their bunker gear.
We are thinking about allowing the extrication crew to wear lightweight gear similar to wildland firefighting suits. I'm not convinced that regular wildland gear will provide enough protection from sharps, but it would reduce the amount of heat stress on the crew.
the dispatch info doesn't necessarily match what you will encounter on scene. you can modify your ppe depending on circumstances. change the policy, don't violate it. safety first.
Full PPE (Turnout Gear, Including: helmet, coat, bunker pants, boots, fire gloves or extrication gloves.) is and should be required on all MVA calls, this includes company officers and chief officers. I also wear medical gloves under my fire gloves, fire gloves and/or extrication gloves are not liquid proof and therefore, blood and other body fluids may come in contact with your skin. Everyone has small cuts, or areas of open skin on your hands, and any fluid that comes into contact with you can potentially enter your body. Getting back on track, EMS personnel do not have to wear turnout gear as long as they are not involved in the extrication of the patient and remain in the cold zone. The properly equipped firefighters should extricate the patient, and carry the patient via backboard out to the cold zone and then turn the patient over to EMS personnel. The EMS stretcher should also not be in the hot zone where it can come in contact with vehicle fluids and other hazardous materials that will then be carried into the ambulance and the hospital.
over here we use what we call level ones for mva fire retardant overalls with knee protection built in and fire resistant with leather gloves glasses and helmet if necessary but then again in winter they stay in the locker and its straight into the bunker gear
the overalls also double for wild fire