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PPE on Vehicle Accidents
I was just wondering what peoples thoughts/department SOG's were on wearing bunker gear, ambulance crew/fire crew, on the scene of vehicle accidents. In my department's SOG's it states "Bunker gear is required for personal injury accidents", yet there are some who refuse to wear it when they respond on the squad(ambulance) because they have reflective vests or jackets. Me personally I wear my bunker gear and a refective vest no matter what truck I respond in.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by mean15 on
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Wow-let's play the "what if" game. What if the vehicle contains HAZMAT? Perhaps we should be responding in level 3 Hazmat gear and SCBA. You know - "just in case."
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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David, a rhetorical question for you. What does a once-in-a-career gas leak in a structure kaboom have to do with working every day car wrecks?
We're demonstrably killing firefighters by being struck by vehicles while working wrecks, and by acute and cumulative heat stress while doing a variety of hard work in high head conditions including...summer. Why are we insisting on continuing behaviors that are proven to be harmful "just in case", especially when an incipient fire at a wreck doesn't require full structural PPE to fight it? A lightweight, flash-resistant extrication coat helps the firefighter shed lots of heat stress while still giving adequate protection from 99.9% of the hazards found at nearly every wreck.
Firefighting PPE and SCBA is a long way from being "the only thing we have that is designed to save your butt..." Extrication PPE is only one example. I bought my own extrication coat - my health is worth the $180 it cost me. It also keeps me from going to structural fires in turnouts that are ripped up from glass and sharp metal cuts from working wrecks.
And...if fires at wrecks are such a big problem, why don't we see the LODD and injury reports from these incidents on the numerous online fire and EMS blogs that would be jumping all over this if we had even one incident of this nature. We need to start focusing our training, size-up, tactics, and PPE on what we actually do, not on "what if". Doing other wise is a case of "Ready, FIRE.....uh.....AIM!
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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People:
As with most SOGs, they have to be tempered with common sense.
It's not wrong to "plan for the worst and hope for the best".
However; if the gear that you wear will endanger the responder, then a common sense approach to adapting to the situation needs to be used as well.
If a helmet gets in the way at an MVA, then perhaps a smaller hard hat or bump cap would be appropriate. If your fire gloves doesn't allow you to use fine dexterity, then a different glove may have to be considered.
And finally, if turnout gear is too cumbersome or too hot, then lighter, approved protective clothing should be an alternative.
Why "risk" the safety of your responders for the sake of "safety"? It doesn't make sense.
And I'm a safety professional.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Travis on
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I believe no matter what the call might be fender bender or roll over ect. you should wear full ppe on it. For example one of our neighboring departments had a accident on the interstate nothing real major but while they was working it a car that was not paying attention ran through their traffic cones and struck a firefighter. He had on full ppe, and came out with minor injuries. I believe along with some of the other firefighters that was on that scene that if he would not have been in full ppe he would not have been so lucky. It may only be a minor accident but you never know what is going to happen on that scene.
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Just curious - how does structural firefighting PPE protect you from injury when you get hit by a car?
That is an impact injury. Except for the helmet, structural PPE provides minimal protection from impact. Turnout gear is designed to protect us from thermal, not impact injuries.
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I can speak from experience, in that you cannot RUN very fast in full turnout gear.
My chief was lamenting just recently that, when he was being chased by a vehicle at an MVA, his turnout gear wasn't being very cooperative. This was during the winter when the "forgiveness" of the material isn't as good as when it is say 400 degrees.
If running away from the idiots who ignore vehicle accident scenes to keep from getting struck is becoming the norm, then we may have to issue those skimpy tank tops, running shorts and running shoes to our people, since we aren't faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive and able to leap tall buildings.
Sorry; didn't mean to blow the myth!
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by turk182 on
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It is manditory for full turn out gear when working around the vehicles directly on the scene.
But if you are on traffic control we let the firefighters wear their helmets,bunkers and traffic vest, mainly when it is hot weather.
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Permalink Reply by Lester Pearsall on
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2 things that everyone is failing to mention, 1. if you are working a wreck and get hurt you will NOT be covered by workmans comp if you are not in authorized gear, 2. If you SOG says wear bunkers, you are in direct violation of your SOG.
We purchased rescue coveralls for wrecks. Eased then wear and tear on bunkers and are a lot easier to move around the wreck site in. Fire suppression personnel still wear full bunkers.
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Firefighter LODDs and serious LOD injuries at wreck scenes come almost exclusively from being struck be a vehicle in a secondary collision. Prevention of those injuries include using an apparatus as a traffic blocker for the crash lane and at least one adjacent lane, putting the crew in the new-style super-high-viz traffic vests, using traffic cones to steer oncoming traffic away from the wreck lane, and lighting up night scenes to create "instant daylight".
If you get hit by a speeding car, your turnout gear won't help you much, if at all. Turnout gear provides thermal protection, not impact protection. Fire helmets aren't crash-rated, either.
Most wrecks don't have fires, and wrecks cut up your turnout gear and make it less effective at protecting you at your next house fire. Lightweight extrication gear is a much better option than bunker gear for wrecks.
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Tony,
More thoughts on this - when I say "extrication gear", that doesn't mean it's use is restricted to a Rescue company. It can be worn by anyone working the wreck, especially medical personnel. I used to work for an EMS/Rescue/Special Ops provider that issued turnout gear to every member. None of us - including the heavy rescue crews - wore our turnout gear when responding to wrecks. We put it on at the scene if we needed it.
That had a couple of advantages. First, we weren't wearing the "instant sauna" when we didn't need it - minor fender-benders with minimal hazards and minor patient injuries.
Second, we had faster response times to every wreck, because we weren't slowing down the response to dress out for calls when we didn't need the gear.
Third, everyone had the gear on the truck, and it took less than a minute to dress out at the scene when we needed to.
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Permalink Reply by chris carillo on
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ppe for accidents should be flash proof, and hazardous liquid proof. everyone in the hot zone should be fully protected (including chiefs, i.c.'s, safety officers, and ems)
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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What?? He's wearing gloves!! lol
Wow, crazy, eh?
In our area, even EMS (as I believe the light blue shirt to be), have helmets and coats (not like bunker coats though). I've seen our driver stay back and remain the tool getter and give his coat to the paramedic who has to be very close to the work while extricating from an overturned car. The safer the better right? I was in full gear doing C-spine and trying to control the patient while paramedics put in a line on one side and other firefighters worked on trying to free his legs. I ended up with scratches on my face, the only part of my body not covered. Nothing serious, of course, but without the coat, I would have been cut for sure (small car, big wreck).
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