Who should be in charge of the apparatus while responding to the scene?

This topic comes up when I am assigned to engineer. I believe that the engineer should have the say what goes on inside the cab while the vehicle is in motion. My reason is if your involve in a wreck who is going to be sited. In a case that happen in a county next to mine a quint responding code 3 T-Boned a car a killed the occupants inside. The driver tried in court for the deaths, and the local media covered the story only on the driver. My understanding is that the officer riding in the appropriate seat was not charged or any actions taken. Only internal. With this accident speed was a factor and responding to a general alarm drop. Looking for opinions on this and if some dept's have SOG's on the topic.

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Permalink Reply by CHRIS STIMMELL on February 17, 2009 at 8:44am

The Driver is responsible, but the Officer is accountable for the actions of driver by the department. The officer is in charge of ops, positioning, but the driver should obey all driving laws because he is the one who is going to be charged.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on February 17, 2009 at 9:42pm

The Officer is in charge but they are supposed to perform the neccessary actions to protect his driver from getting into an accident. This includes sounding the siren, giveing good directions, getting out to spot the unit going foward or backward and many more.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Koontz on February 18, 2009 at 12:27pm

Well, I've been a driver and a driving instructor for a long time on various rigs. The speech I always give is that the driver of the rig is going to pay the price for what happens, i.e. wrecks, breakdowns, whatever. The Officer in the seat, or most senior in the rig, tells you where to go, but its up to the driver on how to get there, the safest way to operate the rig, etc.

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Permalink Reply by Dan on February 18, 2009 at 3:34pm

The officer is responsible for the the driver, the driver ultimately is responsible for the unit that he or she is driving. I have on more than one occasion kicked the driver out from behind the wheel and had another FF drive the unit to the incident, because the driver was not using the gray matter. The goal of the driver is to make sure all of the crew goes home at shift exchange. My driver will not move the vehicle unless all are belted in, this is due to me constanly reminding him about seat belts. It drives an OT LT up the wall when they work with him. IT WORKS.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Williams on February 18, 2009 at 6:47pm

I agree with "fireman 1049". You need to have your gear on before yo u get on the rig. If your gear is not on that probly means your not wearing your seatbelt. As far as who is in charge. . . . i would have to say the driver is in charge of driving. If someone is doing something to distract the person driving, then the driver should have the authority to put a stop to it. Or stop the rig till it's taken care of!

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Permalink Reply by Pete Methner on February 19, 2009 at 9:24pm

The officer should be in charge of the truck, not the engineer. Someone needs to be responsible for his actions... remember, not all engineers are 15 year guys... some are two year firefighters with little or really no experience... be careful with this one...

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Permalink Reply by Jon Lorenston on February 19, 2009 at 10:50pm

Our sogs everyone has to have their turn gear and seatbelted in before the truck is allowed to move. Our state laws allows You to go over the posted speed limit by 10 mph and u must come t o complete stop at all intersection when a red light or stop sign is present.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on February 20, 2009 at 12:30am

Hi Pete, In my Dept the question would be asked is why are the engineers and drivers with no expierence or very little expierence allowed to be active drivers because you are putting every firefighter on the apparatus at risk and thats not fair to do. SOP's need changed. When that engineer or driver goes in front of the policeman or the judge who do you think will be responsibile? The man behind the drivers seat!! If anyone is gonna be an engineer or a driver they better have expierence and every dept should take their men out on a drivers training course and have them drive for a period of time before excepted as a active engineers and it would help if the drivers training course is setup by the State Police thats what we do .No One ever wants to see another firefighter get hurt in an accident and you never want to see your dept have an accident with your apparatus. Just my thoughts and ideas. Hugh The 57 House Stay Safe God Bless You.

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Permalink Reply by Robert S. (Bob) Lucas on February 20, 2009 at 8:35pm

You say "Having the driver decide to fly through intersections without stopping to get to a dumpster fire - absolutely no way." suggests that if the call is a working job it is o.k. Make sure 'more urgent' doesn't become 'more careless'.
Our job is to get there with no one getting hurt.

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Permalink Reply by william burchit on February 21, 2009 at 3:36pm

i am currently a captain of my dept... when the bell sounds and the crew takes their place in the engine.. we all get dressed before entering the appuratus minus scba of course.. when the crew gets in me being the oic on the rig makes sure everyone is seat belted before the engine even pulls out of the bay.. if you not buckled or choose not too you get out of the appuratus and stay at station for standby.... while in route to the call whatever it may be. i have a million things going through my head on what or who do i need responding.. the driver usually does good while begind the wheel if something seems wrong i will pipe up and let him know about it.. safety is first.. adrinilin some time gets the best of everybody.. but for the most part the engineer has say so on some stuff while in route to the scene on my dept.. unless i dont lik what it is going on...... seat belts first.....

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Permalink Reply by william burchit on February 21, 2009 at 3:39pm

there is a new product being made for new appuratus for safety reasons.. is is a box that tells whether or not your crew is belted or not and i believe the truck does not move til all the belts are on.. also they have black box recoders in them like the airplanes that measure speed and g forces..