Who should be in charge of the apparatus while responding to the scene?

This topic comes up when I am assigned to engineer. I believe that the engineer should have the say what goes on inside the cab while the vehicle is in motion. My reason is if your involve in a wreck who is going to be sited. In a case that happen in a county next to mine a quint responding code 3 T-Boned a car a killed the occupants inside. The driver tried in court for the deaths, and the local media covered the story only on the driver. My understanding is that the officer riding in the appropriate seat was not charged or any actions taken. Only internal. With this accident speed was a factor and responding to a general alarm drop. Looking for opinions on this and if some dept's have SOG's on the topic.

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Permalink Reply by Firefighter Nation WebChief on September 2, 2008 at 10:04pm

Just out of curiosity, but shouldn't an officer ensure the crew is behaving itself while the driver focuses on driving? Was the driver distracted, what actions inside the cab contributed to the accident? Seems a little info. is needed to really respond to this ... If speed was a factor, then how could anyone other than the driver be to blame?

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Permalink Reply by Wes Anders on September 2, 2008 at 10:17pm

Your driving is your responsibilty no matter if the officer tells you to do something its your DL not the officers and the apparatus is your responsibilty if you are behind the wheel thats the law in any state im pretty sure.

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Permalink Reply by Drew Tenhundfeld on September 2, 2008 at 10:22pm

This happen going through an intersection. The crew was behaving. The sensor didn't change the light when a emergency vehicle was approaching. I feel that the officer should have slowed the driver down when entering the intersection. The problem that I have is that the officer like to put their coat and scba on while going down the road. The reason I bring this up, I met the other engine at an intersection. The person riding in the OIC seat was getting dressed. Which blocked my field of view to see if anything was coming. After the detail the Lt. and Capt from the other station gave me a verbal reprimand for not making sure the intersection was cleared before proceeding. Your opinion please.

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Permalink Reply by Drew Tenhundfeld on September 2, 2008 at 10:25pm

How do you get that point across to the officer?

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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on September 2, 2008 at 10:35pm

Until the vehicle arrives at scene, the ultimate responsibility has to lay with the driver- they control the accelarator, brakes and sirens. The driver is the one who will be charged by Police...

Once on scene then the Officer can dictate vehicle positioning, etc

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Permalink Reply by T.J. on September 3, 2008 at 8:06am

In my book the driver is fully in charge, and so is the Chief for signing off stating that person is able to drive the equipment (to an extent).

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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on September 3, 2008 at 8:58am

My dad was a driver/operator and he always beat it into me and my brother's heads that the driver is responsible for that apparatus and the lives of the personel on it. In my opinion he is half right. The one riding " the seat " should also be held accountable for keeping the driver's driving in check and should already be dressed before they get on the apparatus. I have a bad habit of getting dressed on the truck as well and have been told several times to sit back so the driver could see. It's a bad habit to even start. Stay safe!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Walter on September 3, 2008 at 9:15am

we just talked about this in my dept. and my perception is the driver is responsible for driving. the officer should be in charge of everything else(lights, siren, radio, directions adn sizing up on the way). the officer should point out if the driver is being reckless (hey slow down, the opticom didnt trip the light, or look out for these kids up the street) granted the driver is responsible for the vehicle but the officer should look out for his crew. if the officer tells you to speed it up and you dont want to, simply say i dont think it is a good idea because of what ever the reason may be. if he doesnt like it, oh well you are responsible for the truck and the actions of the truck. and i dont know of anyone being sued for being to cautious.

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Permalink Reply by Bill Brierton on September 3, 2008 at 9:23am

I think both driver as well as the officer are responsible for the safety of their crew as well as the people around them. Sure the driver has to make decisions about going through an intersection safely but the officer should make sure that the driver is doing exactly that. If the officer sees the driver doing or about to do something unsafe then the officer needs to act.

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Permalink Reply by FETC on September 3, 2008 at 10:14am

Well the driver is driving the truck. Therefore nobody in the cab can actually stop or slow it down physically. The department needs a policy on a few things. Is the driver required to have EVOC or CDL license in your state or jurisdiction? Does the officer have a policy that states he is empowered to tell the driver to stop or slow down? Do you have an emergency response policy for intersection operations, meaning stop at every non-controlled or stop sign intersection? And lastly, if your state requires a CDL for commercial trucks, all do, but does the state have a "fire emergency exemption" to not require the FD driver to have a CDL during any emergency operations only response, does the officer who has a CDL going to be held liable for the actions of the driver when the rig is involved in an accident?

In my department, I can make you stop the truck for dangerous actions by policy, you as the driver are required to have a CDL and obtain a driver operator all vehicle certification program, and you personally will be held accountable for the accident, along with the department who has the biggest pockets financially.