Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mick Mayers on February 14, 2008 at 7:23am

I have found that the hardest thing to change about anyone is their attitude on professionalism; if their take on professionalism is "I've been doing it this way for 15-20 years and haven't gotten hurt/screwed up/insert issue here", then changing the mindset is going to be a challenge. If, like some departments mentioned on this thread, you have a "life-altering experience", you are more willing to be led to the fountain of knowledge. Unfortunately, it shouldn't require an injury or fatality or burned down building to create that change in momentum.

Training in my home department (I always have to qualify between HHIFR and SC-TF1 because they are completely different animals) is part of the culture. In fact, being an instructor is a REQUIREMENT for promotion and being an ACTIVE instructor is pretty much the only way you will actually GET the promotion. We review training records regularly to see what training is being conducted and we have a 20-hour per month "rule"; I say it like that because we look for that more as an indicator of what is occurring and we prefer more along the lines of competency-based training- if you can do the job along our requirements, we are happy with that. It also helps that our management and the Town Staff agree that training is important and it doesn't hurt that our Chief of Department now spent most of his career in Training and is a well-respected instructor and evaluator.

I say the task force is different just because we are scattered throughout the state, but our mindset there is very similar; especially since the original command staff of the organization all met and came up with the concept because we were the state's rescue instructors together. And there it doesn't hurt that our HQ and cache is co-located at the State Fire Academy.

My point being; it has to be part of the culture of the organization and the leaders must believe in it. If you are trying to influence at the company level, your officer must believe in it in order to get the troops to believe in it. If you can influence other through your good example (and putting on interesting classes doesn't hurt), you can get these people to follow your lead.

Permalink Reply by Firechief2411 on February 28, 2008 at 11:52am

I think you hit this one right on the head, when I was a paid chief we paid guys to train, but not I'm a Vol guys train when they can, however with that being said, something is wrong with this new generation of firefighter today, it's the old guys that want to train, the young kids just want a place to hang and play x-box. I think they have seen ladder 49 to many times. Training is what keeps you safe. That's just something kids today just to not understand. Stay Safe

Permalink Reply by Patrick Twohig on February 28, 2008 at 9:48pm

This is a problem I have thought about on many sleepless nights. I think the problem stems from todays generation settling for being mediocre and not having the ambition and determination to be the best. Todays youth have very little work ethic, this carries over from the fact that they will walk over a candy wrapper in the bay before they take a moment to pick it up. If this trend continues, I think the fire service is going to be in sad shape in a few years. On the flip side it will make those of us that strive to be better stand out

Permalink Reply by Rick on July 23, 2008 at 5:24pm

It seems like alot of dept.'s are having the same problem, what have you tried to get ppl to attened training? Do you have any tips or advice on what and how things could be covered?

Permalink Reply by Rick on July 25, 2008 at 8:47pm

Thank-you finally another officer that feeles the same way I do. With all the bullshit that seems to come down from the bosses. As officer's I feel we have the responditbility to our teams to keep they safe and make sure that everyone goes home safe, even if it means pissing off some people so be it. If any body does put together a program that can use to show people why and how to be safe. I would love to get a copy if possable. Stay safe everbody.

Permalink Reply by Bull on August 23, 2008 at 3:36pm

Tell me about it. I ask the same question over and over. As soon as you find the answer let me know please.

Permalink Reply by Bull on August 23, 2008 at 3:39pm

I agree with what you are saying with one exception, I love to train, I feel you can never get enough. You say people like us will stand out. But standing out is not going to save me or your life when we are on the job and we are with those that don't train. Sorry just my feelings about it. How do we get others like us?????????

Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on October 22, 2008 at 6:20pm

In the state of Ohio a firefighter is required @ least 18 hrs in 3 yrs *I think* to renew our VFF certification. At our station we require 36 hrs per year and have for as long as I remember. Those 36 hrs can be individual hours obtained from outside sources, online or the inhouse training we offer.

Who says the older guys have to train with the younger guys? OR why don't they TEACH the rookies? One of the reasons people don't want to train is redundancy. Yes I understand you should improve your times by practice but some of your guys have been doing this for a long time. EVERYBODY only wants to do "live burn" simulations. That gets everybody out. The promise of food moves folks to train as well.

Improve the morale of your FD & you will improve your inhouse training attendance. Encourage them to spend time together. Splitting training offerings between evenings & weekends works pretty well but becareful of taking up too much time or too MANY times in the same month. Volunteers have to work around their work schedule, their family events, like a second job or a spouses job & child care. Its a fact of life we have to work WITH not against. THAT is why we lose fire fighters. We expect too much & give too little back. Pat your guys on the back & PRAISE them for a job well done.

Permalink Reply by Capt. Tom on March 2, 2009 at 9:53pm

Indeed, I will repeat that line... "Let no Man say his training let him down". It must be kpet in the forefront that "firefighting is inherently dangerous". We CANNOT send people into harms way without the proper training and tools (skills). It is that simple. If they don't train, they don't go. Why is this so hard to understand?
Capt. Tom

Permalink Reply by Capt. Tom on March 2, 2009 at 10:09pm

A new response to an old thread maybe someone will read it and think, maybe not. GOOD training brings people in. We found this out the easy way. When I came to the level that I could influence WHAT the training was I picked stuff and subjects I was weak on. It turned out a lot of others were weak on that stuff too and we got people in to do the training that knew their S#@t and gave good practical training. We heard a lot of good comments about the drills, kicked it up a notch, and heard a lot more good stuff and the numbers kept coming up. Soon we were hearing the 'seldom seens' saying "why didn't you tell me about the drill on Sunday, I heard it was really good" to which I would reply "well, we did, it was in the same email bulletin you have been ignoring for the last year, pay attention dummy". You can lead a horse to water, but...
MAKE the training worth their time and they will spend the time. Get new instructors, new ideas, new drills, post the notices everywhere and allow no excuses for not knowing about it. If you build it, they WILL come.
Your milage may vary,
Capt. Tom

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