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Would You Work With a Felon?
The latest in the FDNY’s court saga over hiring imbalances has the department considering hiring convicted felons with a “Certificate of Good Conduct” from the state parole board.
Read more, “Law Forces FDNY to Consider Felons”
Would you work alongside a new firefighter if you knew he or she was a convicted felon?
Are you already working with a convicted felon?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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I would never presume to second-guess what a highly-respected department might do, but no - I would rather not work with a convicted felon.
My department excludes felons.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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I would easily second-guess them. The reason they are respected is because of the guys on the street doing a great job. The ones making stupid decisions like this are not firefighters or officers, They are politicians.
We have the same problem and seem to be going the same route in DC. I'm proud to work for a traditional world-class department that fights fires aggressively. However the politicians here(in a large city the chief is a politician, not a real fireman), are ruining the department as well.
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I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a commissioner in a large city is an elected official. Is your chief also an elected official?
I'm glad to say my chief is a 45 year vet who worked his way up the ranks and was a two-time firefighter of the year at his paid department before he retired. But we're a small department.
Are the big city departments having difficulty recruiting quality people?
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Permalink Reply by Robert Bates on
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No. How could the public expect to trust you if a member of the department is convicted felon? Would you want a rapist in the back of your ambulance on a domestic or sexual assault call? Would you trust a thief in a home during overhaul?
Public Safety members need to have the publics trust and these people have already violated the public trust and as such are typically not ever fully trusted again - even though they have "served their time for their crime"
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Permalink Reply by Jim Conrad on
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whats next, dumbing down the fire service so that people who cant read or write dont feel discriminated against..... oh wait........Never mind.
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Permalink Reply by Russ on
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we alredy have felons in the department (the bosses & city hall)-they just aint been caught yet
all kidding aside i'd have to say no
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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For me personally, I don't think I would have a problem working with a former felon and if one were hired, I would doubt I would say "I refuse to work with such a person". Frankly when it comes down to the people getting hired and who I work with, there is little say. I think asking these questionson a personal level delves into the same fallacies and so forth about women being firefighters.
I DO, believe hiring a former felon does create issues that can create trust and suspect issues, fair or unfair. For instance say another FF has something go missing in the firehouse, be it misplaced or whatever, I bet the first suspect becomes the former felon. Same thing with the public trust and with that trust, there is no reason to be hiring former felons. Franly, I think it leads to to many "what if" issues and puts a considered trusted service into furher speculation that we really don't need. It is bad enough we have a number of FFs who F up and make the news and regardless of the situation, it is always a Such and Such FF was arrested, etc........we don't need to further compromise issues further with having former felons working.
The other issue to me, is there are plenty of people out there who are looking for these jobs already. The competition is steep and despite the reductions in many depts, they still e no problem getting applicants. So why do they need to expand that applicant pool even further by considering former felons??
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Permalink Reply by R on
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Considering the recent tragedy in Webster N.Y. committed by a former felon of N.Y.S. penal system it makes one wonder if the state parole board is qualified to make these decisions. I wonder what thoughts the folks from Webster N.Y. have about this topic.
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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Convicted of what charge?
Were they celebrating turning 21, and got popped with a DWI? Were they caught hunting without a license? Or were they convicted of molesting a 5 year old child, or slashing the throats of women after sexually assaulting them. All of these are felonies in some states, yet they are nowhere close to being the same.
Lets say that a person goes across the border from Texas, into Mexico. Goes to a licensed physician and recieves a prescription for Vicodin (a narcotic). Comes back across the border into the US. Submits proof that a licensed physician in Mexico issued a legal prescription, which was filled by a legal pharmacy. All legal under US law. 10 miles into Texas, gets pulled over and the pills are found. He or she is facing a State Jail Felony for illegal possession of a controlled substance. The prescription wasn't written by a licensed Texas physician. It happens frequently here.
Now to add more thing to consider. A recent article in a transportation newsletter said: The Equal Employment Opportunities Commission issued new “Enforcement Guidance on the Consideration of Arrest and Conviction Records in Employment Decisions Under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The new guidelines note that using a criminal record to deny employment may now have become be a proxy for discrimination based upon race or national origin, based on their findings that; "Arrest and incarceration rates are particularly high for African American and Hispanic men. African Americans and Hispanics are arrested at a rate that is 2 to 3 times their proportion of the general population. Assuming that current incarceration rates remain unchanged, about 1 in 17 white men are expected to serve time in prison during their lifetime; by contrast, this rate climbs to 1 in 6 for Hispanic men; and to 1 in 3 for African American men.”
According to the new EEOC guidelines, an employer subject to Title VII can also be found liable for discrimination if a plaintiff “demonstrates that the employer’s neutral policy or practice has the effect of disproportionately screening out a Title VII-protected group and the employer fails to demonstrate that the policy or practice is job-related for the position in question and consistent with business necessity.” Now I'm no Curt Varone, but I'd be willing to bet there are civil rights lawyers taking a hard look at this decision and how to exploit utillize it. What effect this has on public service agencies remains to be seen. But it appears that the Federal Government is essentially backing up the NY law
Whether I would work beside one would depend. As it stands right now, it is a moot point in Texas, because it is next to impossible to get a commission as a firefighter, peace officer, or certified as an EMT or Paramedic with any felony conviction. Am I working beside one now? Again probably not.
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Permalink Reply by William Revis on
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Considering the large number of applicants that the FDNY, or any other paid department is likely to get for a firefighters position, it seems to be highly unlikely that a convicted felon would be the best qualified candidate. This is the real problem. When you compromise your standards for whatever reason, you are cheating the public when lives are at stake.
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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Well said Oldman, and I agree with most of what you say here.
I believe there is good in most people and I tend not to judge people without factual information.
With some of the above mentioned "Felonies" such as a DWI...mistakes happen, and it does not make that person a "Bad" person...I have made mistakes too, as I am sure everyone here has at one point in time, no one is perfect right?
If they are a cold blooded murderer...no...
Rapist...definitely no, you cant take a rapist and put him/her in a situation on a medical call with a half naked patient who is sick, maybe unconcious or delerious and extremely vulnerable and expect them not to relapse...eventually...
Child molester...HELL no. They are sick and require extensive treatment and cannot be put in a situation where a childs life is in their hands...would NOT work with one.
DWI, theft, auto-theft and such...some people just start out in life with the wrong parents, the wrong role models and they are just people, like you and I. There is good in them, and maybe after their arrest, dealing with the police, lawyers, judges who all give great advice to these people in an effort to rehab them and get them on the right track, they see the error of their ways and want to repay society. I would not have any issue with them being a firefighter. BUT, they are going to have to work hard for any of my trust, they will take a lot of shit from the other members and have to deal with it, and they will have to work three times as hard to get to be a respected member in order to prove their intentions are true and heartfelt, and not just "community service"...
Will they drive the trucks? No... Will they be left alone in any situation? No... Will I as a Chief Officer be hard on them and expect more from them? YES
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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Even if FDNY or anyother dept. started hireing felons. You would never know who is or isn't one. Privacey laws would prevent the dept. from devulging that information.
Another point is that other laws would prevent certain felons from being hired. One example would be sex offenders.
So the question being posed here is pointless. You will never know who is or isn't a felon, unless they themselves volunteer that information.
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