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How Do you respond?
This is going to be more toward the volunteer sector but you guy from the city are welcome to respond as well i now your answers will all be different.
You get toned out for a vehicle fire. The vehicle is in the drive way and no one inside and no exposure's. Lets say address is 10 miles from your station. Do you respond on a RED lights and sirens or do you respond on a White with out lights and siren. Then way do you respond this way?
Don't be afraid to answer here. This is not a who's right or wrong type of forum here. You will see were i'm going with this in a few days. If we get some responses up here.
All my remarks later will be based on New York State Emergence vehicle law. So they may not reflect your proto calls so don't get up set about any remarks i may make. Thanks in advance for your participation.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Derek J Sinesi on
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John, I think i will have to spell this out. This issue really has nothing to do with NFPA. Tell me how many firefighters are in the NFPA group. Most are not that is all i'm getting at. In most states when regulations are handed down from the state government most of the people setting these regulations do not work at that job or have ever worked it. Some maybe good others are bad. So then how do they know our job? They read about it. They get told about it. I can explain to someone how to rebuild a 8/65 patty machine but will that make them a expert at it? No it won't, could they possibly rebuild it? Maybe. So all i'm really trying to state here is that some people think they now how we should respond. They seem to know more then we do and have never done what it is we do.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Derek,
I really don't know who develops NFPA standards but I can't believe that "...most of the people in the NFPA are not firefighters and do not know what it is we have to do." And while engineers and research scientists may NOT be firefighters I bet they have a very good idea what we do.Don,
I didn't say the NFPA was infallible and I didn't say that every standard is the best possible one. What I did say was, '...find out just what exactly the NFPA is and has done that has made (and makes) our job safer.'
Has the NFPA made our job safer?
If you re-read the quote from Derek you can see that what I had a problem with was his broad accusation that the NFPA had "...no idea about the fire service have a bug up their butts..."
Comments like these serve no good purpose other than to reaffirm some people's beliefs that ANY organization other than the local AHJ is no good.
Also, which NFPA standard mandates that every fire department needs a CBRN level SCBA? I found this and it explains what a CBRN level SCBA must be, and how a field SCBA can be retrofitted to CBRN level but I haven't been able to find anything that mandates that all SCBA be CBRN level.
As for low air alarm at 33%, that seems reasonable. Using 2216psi bottles not so much, but I suppose those could be in smaller, poorly funded departments?
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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There are a ton of 2216 bottles out there still in use. Maybe not in your area, but they are still out there being used everyday. The 33% change will most likely force those FDs to move to 4500 psi scba in their next purchase obsoleting their spare bottles and in some cases their compressors.
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Don,
Honestly I've never seen a 2216 bottle, we use 45's.
So you're saying that any department using 2216's has to acquire new, low air alarms? Or is the new 33% standard only for new 45's
Also, can you direct me to a link that shows that CBRN level SCBA is mandated? I haven't been able to find anything.
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Jack,
I may be wrong on the CBRN requirement I was told that by someone who I believed had a good grasp on that and I may have been misinformed.
I don't believe there is any mandate to retrofit the old scba, but any new scba would meet that new standard.
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The NFPA was formed in 1896 by a group of insurance firms with the stated purpose of standardizing the new and burgeoning market offire sprinkler systems. The scope of the NFPA's influence grew from sprinklers and fire extinguishers to include building electrical systems (another new technology), and then into almost all aspects of building design and construction.
Its original membership was limited to insurance underwriting firms and there was no representation from the industries the NFPA sought to control. This changed in 1904 to allow other industries and individuals to participate in the development of the standards to be promulgated by the NFPA. The first fire department to be represented in the NFPA was the New York City Fire Department in 1905, though their participation has declined steadily since then. Today, the NFPA includes representatives from some fire departments, many fire insurance companies, many manufacturing associations, some trade unions, many trade associations, and engineering associations.
Jack, Here it is, Under 5% are firefighters. Does this mean the other 95% don't have a general knowledge about are jobs? No it means they have never done it. So it makes it hard to truly understand everything there is to know about firefighting. When i made the above commit it was not directed toward the NFPA in any way. I was using them as a example. You have choice to make it look that way. Do i think the NFPA has made are jobs safer? You bet i do. Do i think every standard is the best for all involved? No! No more then the electrical unions or pipe fitter unions or any one else that has to go by their standards. I don't for a minute believe we don't need standards and i think in some stuff we need better standards and this includes national standards. We need uniformed standards so if i decide to move from New York to Mississippi i don't have to worry if they will honer my certs. from NY.
We have manged to get way of coarse on the original question. It is questions like this that people should be able to answer with out having to worry about getting in a debate over a statement they made. It is answer to question like this that we should be able to look at and come to a conclusion that we may need to start looking at the way we respond and come up with our own standard as a whole group of firefighters across America. This way we don't need elected officials or other groups telling us how to do what we love doing. I have to think most do not respond to different things on here just for this very reason. They have to defend every thing they say.
So if we can get past the NFPA stuff i would like to get back to the original question and precede to the next question.
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Next. How do you respond to Fire alarms?
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Red light and siren until confirmed as a false alarm by the first arriving unit.
If we receive a call back from the alarm company saying it is a false alarm then we respond one unit in to confirm that.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Next. How do you respond to Fire alarms?
Engine within the district and battalion chief are notified. Engine responds lights and sirens, unless there is a proper code to cancel. Batt may respond, but usually monitor.
This was a change in the past year from a full fire response going lights and sirens, to a full response with the first due pump going lights and sirens, to this.
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Permalink Reply by Jesse Young on
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Vehicle fires propose the threat of projectiles and hazardous materials. Therfor, Lights/Sirens
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My department runs lights/sirens with a Chief, Truck, and Engine to all fire alarms with an additional Truck and Engine for commercial structures. If the caller provides a proper passcode and requests a cancelation, the Chief will continue in and all apparatus will standby at the station.
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Permalink Reply by Josh Chambers on
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Exactly the same here. We investigate every alarm no matter what.
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