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PASS activation.....
Before anyone gets too far into reading this, it's just a quick rant and i don't want anyone to think I have something new to share.
I'm noticing, in quite a few videos, that there are PASS alarms going off in the background. The most recent vid had the alarm going off for nearly the whole length of the clip. It disturbs me to think that people are being "trained" to ignore the alarm. In my opinion, that alarm should not be going off unless there is a mayday or firefighter down. We train that if we hear that alarm, we are to hunt it down, if it's not obvious, and find out what's going on.
To me, those that are ignoring this alarm, for any reason, are learning something bad. Just like train whistles near your home where you grew up. You just eventually didn't hear or norice the sound anymore unless it was pointed out to you. Sure, there is quite a difference here, but essentially, that's what is happening.
Why are the alarms going off and not being shut off. Did someone drop a pack and not turn it off? They should know better. How many people are hearing it and nobody bothers to shut it off?
It irritates me to no end to hear those alarms going off for no reason. If someone wants to test it, that's fine, just turn it right off again. If you don't notice your pre-warning alarm going off, then you need more experience with your pack. This goes with not knowing how to shut the alarm off. Same if you leave a pack unattended and don't shut it down. And those that walk by and do nothing, well, I don't know what to say to them. Well, I do, but I'm trying to keep this nice.
Anyway, the PASS alarm is just that, a personal alert safety system. It's not to make it feel like summer with the crickets and frogs in the background.
If you have made it this far, thanks for listening/reading. Does anyone use the pass alarms on scene for some reason I'm not familiar with? If you do, it's wrong in my opinion.
There's not much of a question here, if you feel like posting your thoughts, the table is yours..have at 'er.
thanks for your time.
KSHF
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Mogg on
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In our department, it seems that when the pass alarm goes off, everyone starts to shake their money maker in synchronization.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Two things going on here.....
The new standard for the latest airpacks basically SUCK. They go off too quick and constantly, (I had one go off in a demo with the rep while walking on the treadmill) far more sensitive than earlier generations. Second: We just changed from MSA 4500MMR to Scott. The Scott has the audible pass alarm speaker in the back, therefore what happens aroud here is when standing for a moment, the pre-alarm sounds like someone else's pack. Our old packs had the alarm in the FRONT.
Now if you have had old packs forever and not something new like above, it is not called being trained to ignore the alarm... it is called complacency.
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Having the alarm stuck behind you would be a real bugger! Ours are clipped onto the front, nice and easy to give them a slap when the pre-alarm goes off.
As for ignoring, leaving the things going at either an incident or training? I don't think so!
Having read a few times about this happening, on various forums, I have wondered. First, I've never known of an alarm being left going. Second, in my service we don't carry radios. Could those two things be connected, people allowing themselves to ignore the alarms because they 'know' that a real emergency would be heard over the radio when someone called a Mayday? Any possibility of this happening do people think? And I'm NOT suggesting that people shouldn't carry radios when wearing BA!
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Permalink Reply by Duncan James Dube on
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Hi Derek! Great post. At our firehall, we are trained to utilize the pass alarm in an emergency/mayday/man down only. However, just as you mentioned, if you arrive on a fire scene were an scba is being used, its amazing how many times you have to go over to one of your own and tell them to shut down there pass alarms. We do scenarios on a regular practice night, and i find there's nothing worse then when we're all standing listening to the Chief speak......sure enough someones PASS alarm starts going off, because they turned it on once they engaged their air. Anyway, I share in your rant.....one of my pet peeves as well.
Take Care....DJD
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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Maybe they set theirs down and they thought it was reset, but there was still a bit of air in it and the pass went off while they were off doing something else. It's just a video. If you weren't on scene how do you know?
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Permalink Reply by Capt.Jocelyn Chiasson on
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Video or not , for that alarm to be activated for almost 2 minutes and nobody is trying to found out what going on and shut it off it's just plaine wrong!!!
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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Hello capcityff.
You're right, I wasn't on scene, so I don't know why for sure. I respect where you are coming from, but either way you look at it, the alarm was going for a long time, and nobody shut it off. Playing the "what-if" game serves no purpose and provides no excuse for someone's inattentiveness and lack of responsibility for their pack. If you're not using the pack, shut it down and put it away.
Again, as far as I'm concerned, there is no acceptable reason for a pass alarm to be going off and not being looked into. And IF it was being looked into, it shouldn't take over 3 minutes to do so with personnel walking around it.
Is that alarm meant to be used as a distress signal? Shouldn't it be treated as such? Should excuses be made for "false alarms"? Should we be "training" ourselves to be the judge of which alarm is an actual emergency and which is not?
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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One of the things that I deal with as a chief officer is that firefighters exit a structure (fireground or training burn building) and forget to deactivate their PASS when they start doffing gear.
A few seconds later, we have an empty SCBA on the ground with the PASS in full alarm. We investigate the cause of the alarm immediately, every time to build good habits.
Another PASS issue is that if you have a downed firefighter and transfill his SCBA with a non-RIT SCBA, you need to take the second SCBA with you when you evacuate the downed firefighter. If you don't, get ready to send a second RIT team to investigate the PASS that results when the second SCBA PASS goes into alarm.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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It is a training issue.
When one hears a pass device activating, first check to see it is yours.
Then check the Brothers and Sister in your proximity. If it is theirs, have them reset it.
If everyone is okay, and you still hear a PASS activated, then its time for PAR and have the RIT go and find member in trouble.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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If you want to put a stop to all those alarms going off...Announce that all pass alarms are to be treated as what they are intended....A Firefighter is in trouble....Next time you are training and hear one go off...immediately call a mayday....stop whatever is going on and initiate an accountability then set up a search....this might stress that those alarms are to be kept in check....shouldn't take too many to ingrain it into their heads......LOL
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We do that if the PASS alarm is on the interior. If it is obviously coming from a doffed SCBA staged on the exterior after a team exits the structure, we just find the offending SCBA and shut the PASS off.
We press the company officers to make sure that their crews shut down their PASS as part of doffing their SCBA - every time.
Running a full RIT/PAR exercise for an obviously unattended SCBA on the exterior is a waste of time, and they tend to be counterproductive, IMHO.
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Permalink Reply by Doug on
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Manage your PASS devices, folks. As someone else said, just about everyone on my department starts shaking their money maker once one starts the initial chirp. And, as FETC, stated, the integrated PASS devices on the new Scott's are super sensitive. We've even had problems with them activating in the trucks before the pack is even turned on.
From 1:06 in, through the remainder of the video. Unreal...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TivVbcjKT3Y&feature=player_embed...!
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