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An interior attack team with 2 guys and thats it.
I took a command class last year and one of my instructors showed use a video clip of a bid city department that showed up to a structure fire in the city, and there was the engine driver and passenger, they got out and rung a hydrant that was next door to the hose that was on fire after that one guy get the hose brought up to the home while the other guy gets the water going and they both pack up and go into this smoke filled home together and there's no one left outside, and this was all done in the matter of minutes, it looked like it was maybe an older video but the instructor said that this still happens in big city. I just wanted to know if this still happens out there and if so why? The city that was featured in this video was Chicago...........................sorry Brian.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Wolfy Lang on
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One thing that has come around my county as a result of the Salisbury NC Millwork Fire where two of our county's finest lost their lives, was that OSHA has stated (I believe this agency is correct) is that Salisbury FD was fined for not having a "packed out ready to go" fire fighter exterior for every FF interior (RIC team).
If you are in Fire Attack mode, you must work in no less than pairs, no FF may be out of sight or voice contact with the other interior, and if you have 2 interior, you have two on a hose line exterior, 4 interior, 4 exterior ready to go etc.
From The OSHA report you can see the cost associated with this....
"A second violation dealt with the Fire Department not ensuring that, in an interior structural fire, at least two firefighters entered the "Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health" atmosphere and remained in visual or voice contact with one another at all times.
According to the citation, this requirement was violated four times during the fire:
- Equipped with an air pack, a firefighter working the fire in the warehouse/shipping area received a low air supply alarm and followed the hose line approximately 75 feet to the exit alone, without remaining in visual or voice contact with another firefighter.
- A firefighter working in the warehouse/shipping area was sent out to inform command personnel that the Quint 4/Squad 1 team "was all right, as their radios were not transmitting." The firefighter traveled approximately 75 feet to the exit alone, without remaining in visual or voice contact with another firefighter.
- A firefighter in the warehouse/shipping area re-entered the building alone after communicating the status of his Quint 4/Squad 1 team to command personnel. "The firefighter entered the building to rejoin his team, without being in visual or voice contact with another firefighter," the investigation said.
- A firefighter re-entered the building alone after changing his air bottle, walking approximately 30 feet into the building to rejoin his team, again without being in visual or voice contact.
This second serious violation collectively was assessed a $3,150 penalty.
The third serious violation cited the Salisbury department for not ensuring that at least two firefighters were located outside the Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health atmosphere.
The compliance investigation determined that Quint 2 and Rescue 1 made the initial fire attack in the basement of the office area before the department established a team of at least two firefighters outside the structure "that were monitoring conditions and properly equipped to facilitate rescue activities."
The third serious violation carried a penalty of $1,138."
As such, our department has modified its Rescue mode and Fire Attack mode procedures accordingly.
Hope this gives you and others some insite into what happens when it goes bad.
Wolfy
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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Wolfy do you have an article on this this inciedne or more info than just the OSHA report, I'd love to check that out. Thanks
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google Salisbury Millwork Fire .... also you might still be able to find info on it at http://www.salisburypost.com and search there, its the local paper...
I just googled it, and there is more information there than you can probably read before daylight... It was a bad day... I was part of the 10 tanker task force they called in from the vol neighboring departments and filled tankers for about 6 hours.... I know the post had some good coverage on it, try adding that to the search as one word... Salisbury Millwork Fire salisburypost .... also if you havent read whats on my blog about, check that out as well...
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LODD at www.usfa.dhs.gov ....
You can also sign up for LODD Alerts I believe at firehouse.com . You will get them at least once a week.. unfortunately...
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Permalink Reply by Dustin J. Millis on
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Yeah it sure does still happen. I wont say the exact department but I will say its in Lake County Indiana, starts with H, and ends with obart!!! That department is famous in my area for running two man engine crews on a daily basis. I feel bad for anyone that works there and would NEVER work there myself
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Permalink Reply by Dave on
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Since when does Chicago run with only two guys on a engine? I doubt the city you are talking about is Chicago, but maybe a Small town around Chicago. Working for a "Big city" I will tell you that in my city the first engine company will drop a line at the hydrant, the officer will do a quick size up and the pipe men will take the pipe along with the officer and start making the proper attack, depending on the distance ...which usually is no more then 300 feet from the hydrant...the hydrant man will either fill the supply line or follow the officer and and pipe man into the building. LAdder companies will place ladders where needed, perform proper vent and perform search and rescue. At this time we assign one engine company to rit with 4 members above the box alarm..so that is a special call engine, and upon a second alarm you get a truck company in addition to the engine. I never heard of leaving a man outside for every man inside...Who has the man power to do that? Most depts dont even have people trained or experinced enough to perform RIT.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Sounds to me like either they are inviting Mr Murphy to visit or they have a death wish.....this is totally wrong for the average call (Unless there is life threat/entrapment)....2 in 2 out is the rule and you have to "Man" the equipment...its not a set and forget thing.......that's my take on it.......Stay safe and always keep the faith...............Paul
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Permalink Reply by rfdjumper on
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Yo Ed,
bravado Definition
bra·vado (brə vä′dō)
noun
1. pretended courage or defiant confidence when one is really afraid
Do you have rowhomes, not modern town houses in Byng, OK. ? I don't think so. I'd almost bet that your local is mostly 1000-1500 sq. ft. single family homes built on a slab. Why is this important, I guess it is acceptable to lose a house now and then due to manpower and surround and drown it when you are only fighting 1 house fire.
Is it acceptable to lose 5, 10, 20, 36 houses because it wasn't 100% safe. I am not saying lets charge in on a 3 story row fully involved alone. I am saying it is acceptable, and expected in my city to make an effort to knock down a room and contents or a couple of rooms by yourself till back up arrives. If conditions change unfavorable, back up till a better position can be gained.
I guess if my city practiced the Byng Fire Department playbook, our manpower would be greatly increased or the housing stock would be a few thousand housing units shorter. Of course the one to lose would be the citizens.
I would love to have 4 firefighters on an engine, it just isn't so. I will never bash a department for having too many guys on an engine, I'm glad your city budget allows such luxuries, or are willing to accept such losses.
discipline Definition
dis·ci·pline (dis′ə plin′, -plən)
noun
1. a branch of knowledge or learning
2. training that develops self-control, character, or orderliness and efficiency
3. strict control to enforce obedience
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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You are correct Dave, Chicago does NOT run 2 man engine crews! Most likely this was one of the smaller suburbs of Chicago. If I saw this video, I could probably shed some light on it. Stay safe!
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Actually, I bet this still happens in EVERY state. I know it happens in Massachusetts. On my first dept we had two guys on a engine and would go at it with two guys. That was 12 years ago mind you, but they are still using the same manpower today.
RFDjumper is right, Most of the fires today are one line fires with the first engine in get the knock down. One room fire is easliy contained with the one line. I think people really have to relax a little. Maybe if most people did this day in and day out they would think differently.
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