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Can a 2 1/2" hose be used as a hand line for fire attack?
When I first started in the fire department we had two types of hand lines 1 1/2" and 2 1/2". We were taught that when you attack a fire that you always take your first line in, backed up by a 2nd line at least as big or bigger. We were also taught that if you have light fire conditions you can use small (1 1/2") water, but heavy fire conditions require big (2 1/2") water. I know we now have 1 3/4" hand lines, but I did not know that we no longer use 2 1/2" hand lines.
A couple weeks ago I was out drilling with my engine company and was discussing using 1 3/4" and 2 1/2" hand lines, when to my surprise one of my pump operators who has been around 30+ years and happens to be a retired state fire instructor said "you can not use a 2 1/2" house as an attack line it is to big".
What do you think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by captnjak on
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I have no idea what he was talking about. We use 2 1/2 lines as attack handlines regularly. Maybe he meant it's too big for your department based on a lack of staffing?
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Permalink Reply by Timothy John Dodson on
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I'm not sure what to think about what the pump operator said, either. We carry a 2 1/2" pre-connect on each of our pumpers and the tanker. Do we pull it on every fire? No, but it is there for when the situation warrants it.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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What a maroon.....yes, you can use a 2 1/2 for attack. Better to have too much than too little.
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They're not my favorite thing to try to handle, either. But like you said, a lotta fire needs a lotta water.
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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The 2 1/2 is absolutely a usable hoseline sie and it takes practice to utilize it properly.
One of my current POC FDs uses 1 3/4 and 2 1/2 inch hose, the other only uses 2 inch for handlines. The 2 inch can flow 300 gpm with a 1 1/4 inch slug tip and we normally move it with 2 or 3 people on the line.
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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Same here. We carry 2 1/2" preconnects as well. We don't use them very often, but will pull a 2 1/2 on heavy fire occasionally. Nice to have a couple of big guys on the engine company!
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Permalink Reply by Robert Bates on
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Being with a smaller department there have been times where we operate as a 2 person engine company. With one member at the pump panel and myself on the line we deployed a 2 1/2 to the front door of a structure that was probably 25% involved and got tremendous knock down on initial attack. After that initial attack when other members arrived on scene we were able to break it down and do final clean-up and overhaul - but the 2 1/2 provided us with tremendous intial knock down and fire control - the initial size-up of 25% involvement never advanced beyond the apartment of origin in a 4 apartment building
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Permalink Reply by FFN WebTeam on
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2 1/2-inch handlines can be used on residential (house) structure fires. Of course, each fire and structure is different and many variables come into play (size-up, staffing, alarm assignment, water supply, etc), but to say as an absolute that the 2 1/2-inch handline cannot be used is wrong.
Below are a few articles from our contributors and editorial board about the larger hoseline, familiarity and related points.
Building Familiarity on Large Handlines (Jakubowski)
Beware Falling Victim to “Residential Mentality” (Robertson)
When to Use 2" Hose (Shapiro)
Commercial vs. Residential Fire Attack (Baird)FFN
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Permalink Reply by John Gallagher on
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When I joined the FDNY (1968) The first line stretched could be 1-1/2in. depending on occupancy and fire condition. It was mandatory that the second line stretched be 2-1/2 in. A 2-1/2 line is a tough hand line to operate. In the 70's the dept introduced 1-3/4in. hose and an additive called "rapid water". The 1-3/4 line using "rapid water" could flow the same amount of water as a 2-1/2 in. line and was a lot easier than 2-1/2in. to move around. Of course this came with a trade off. Because it was easier to operate 1-3/4 in. hose the dept reduced the manpower on engine companies from 5 to 4 men. Next, the dept decided that the "rapid water slurry" was too expensive and stopped using it. Of course we never got that man back. The first arriving officer has to make a quick call as to the size of the line he needs. You can bet there will be times when the 2-1/2 inch line will be needed. Fire conditions on arrival and manpower will have to be considered. A 2-1/2 inch handline could not (IMO) be used effectivly as an offensive line with less than 3 men and even with 3 men, you would be pushing the envelope.
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Permalink Reply by Captain Kevin C. Ross on
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Thank you to all who responded, I appreciate your input. We carry two 2 1/2" pre-connect on each engine as well as three 1 3/4" Have a great day and stay safe
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Permalink Reply by Stan Pratt on
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Interestingly we have been having a similar discussion. Our engine carries 1.75 and 3" and 3" does not make a good attack line. It also carries a 2" line that is a pretty good heavy hitter, flows a lot more than the 1.75 and also handles pretty well
Stan Pratt
Chief (ret) HFD
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Permalink Reply by Sonny Raulerson on
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For a small rural department with very limted staffing like ours it is not done very often because 1st we dont have enough water untill our tankers can get there they will bring 5 K gallons.All our hydrants are on a rural water system with 6" water line. We do carry them on truck so if we just have to we can use them.I will say this we are out of having become very good at running a tanker shuttle.
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