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Shane Ray's "Rethinking Volunteer Firefighter Certification" article will make some waves...
The new superintendant of the South Carolina Fire Academy asks some tough question and offers some creative solutions to the problem of volunteer firefighter certification and just what that should mean.
Here's the article: http://www.firefighternation.com/article/training-0/rethinking-volu...
It is thought-provoking, to say the least. What do you guys think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Don,
Are you able to post anything other than mischaracterizations, personal attacks, false dilemmas, and other logical fallacies?
So far, you haven't shown the ability to do otherwise.
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Donny-boy,
That was NONSENSE, from beginning to end.
Your entire post is nothing but a giant straw man argument, based on a mischaracterization of what Bob posted.
PLEASE learn how to debate logically, factually, and without personal attacks.
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Don, you really need to stop the childish namecalling.
It is uncivil and it has no place here.
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Donny-boy,
Apparently you are unable to discern. I have NEVER personally attacked you in this post or anywhere else.
Show me a single personal attack. It's time to put up or shut up. Personally, I don't think you can do either, but go ahead, surporise me.
And not for the first time, what your department did has no bearing on what any other department did or does. Your incessant insistance that it does is not congruent with reality.
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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You have repeatedly posted snide, snippy, comments attacking my intelligence, accused me of plagarism, been condescending and more. Frankly, I told you a while back I was done with you yet you keep posting to me forcing me to defend myself. Stop being Bobby's protector and you and I haven't got a damn thing to say to each other.
The corrolary to what my FD accomplished having no bearing on any other FD is that the fact that FDs that both you and Bobby know that haven't been able to accomplish anything have no bearing on any other department that decided to stop making excuses and move forward.
Now if you stop posting to me I promise I will find it easy to ignore you. But I know you can't help yourself...
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Please learn to ignore me, I am tired of you playing the superior when you are nothing but an agitator. Stop posting attacks on me or I will report you for harrassment.
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Pot meet kettle. If calling someone a hypocrite, when they are one, is a personal attack go ahead and report me. I will immediately report you for the exact same infraction. You have done nothing but run a vendetta against me for days now. I stopped posting to you until you repeatedly fired shots at me. How about this, Grow up and stop playing the victim, when you are the agitator.
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Don, that is complete B.S.
I haven't called anyone names - that makes it personal. You've done that to both Bob and me several times. Bob and I have not called you names nor violated the user agreement. You have - repeatedly.
Claiming that I have run a vendetta is silly and inaccurate. Come on, Don, don't just keep making these empty accusations, BACK IT UP.
(You can't, which is why your claims are so short on specifics)
Playing the victim - that's another in your list of mischaracterizations here. I have been civil, even when pointing out the weaknesses with your arguments and the time you demonstrably made things up and claimed that I had said them. You have demonstrably not been civil.
Agitator - the one that uses childish namecalling is the agitator and the one that needs to grow up.
That would be you. The one that claims that people he doesn't even know are not dedicated is the agitator, not the ones that defend them.
I didn't fire shots at you. I disagreed with your opinion. It's a public forum. I have the right to do that, as long as I keep it within the user agreement.
The bottom line is I'm fine with you reporting me to the admins, as I haven't done anything in violation of the user agreeement. You demonstrably have.
You need to learn the difference between having a difference of opinion and conducting personal attacks. So far, you have posted nothing demonstrative of understanding that difference.
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Once again, you're just making it up. I have NEVER posted an attack on you.
I don't harrass anyone, especially not you. I disagree with some of your opinions. Once again, you need to learn to tell the difference.
This is a public forum. Disagreement is OK, and it certainly is not harassment. If you don't want it pointed out, don't post it.
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Donny-boy,
That isn't accurate. I have not attacked your intelligence at all. You cannot show a single example of it, because it hasn't happened.
Plagarism - your definitions did look as if they came straight out of a dictionary. I questioned it. You said they didn't. I took your word for it. I didn't even use one of the online plagarism-check sites to check your claim - I took your word for it. I didn't do a quick dictionary search to see if your definitions were the same as one of those - I took your word for it.
And note, when I posted definitions, I hot-linked them to their sources. When I quoted you, I made sure to not only distinguish your comments but to put them in quotation marks. See the difference?
That's not an attack on you - it's questioning how something you posted looked. There is a difference between that and attacking someone personally. Your apparent inability to tell that difference is the problem here.
I didn't force you to do anything. I don't have that ability nor do I have that power. That was a choice on your part, period. Blaming me for it is silly.
In case you missed it, I am the orignal poster in this thread. Also in case you missed it, this is a public forum, where ANY MEMBER can post. Both of those give me the right to reply to whatever comments I choose. I have the right to agree or disagree as I choose.
As I told you when you were trying to claim that firefighters that don't do it your way are lacking in dedication, it's not up to you to decide. You don't have the right to decide for anyone else.
I haven't attacked your intelligence, either. I have pointed out that some of your arguments were logical fallacies (they demonstrably were, and I provided examples), that you just made of some of the things you accused me of saying (I showed examples), and that you kept arguing as if standards and certifications were the same thing until I pointed out - twice - that they are not (and I provided examples of those, too). That isn't condescending, it's just pointing out facts.
Other than the question about sourcing your two earlier definitions, you haven't provided a single factual example to support your claims. Bob and I have cited several examples of yours. Once again, I'm offering you the chance to back up what you claim with the facts. If you cannot or will not, that lack will speak for itself.
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I don't read that situation as being overlapping district responsibilities or the townships having multiple service provider options, but maybe I mis-read something.
It's certainly possible that the two townships in question are toward the anti-tax end of the spectrum, as in the Obion County example. If that's the case, all the dedication in the world won't help the fire department in question obtain the additional funding they seek.
I agree that a lot of the variables are unknown.
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Given the level of disagreement on how to define "firefighter", this one takes it to an entirely different level...using prisoners as firefighters.
At least two Georgia counties are apparently doing this.
How does this fit in to the discussion of firefighter "dedication" that somehow got injected into a discussion about levels of certification?
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