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Inmate Staffing - Could it work?
Georgia Cost-Saving Plan Adds Inmates to Firehouse Staffing
ST MARYS, Ga. (AP) — Officials in southeast Georgia are considering a money-saving program that would put inmates in fire stations. The Florida Times-Union reports (http://bit.ly/nZbutT) that the program would put two inmates in each of three existing firehouses in Camden County.
Times are tough and many departments, career and volunteer, are having a hard time maintaining even minimum staffing. Is this Georgia plan even worth the risk when considering public image and public relations?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Cooper on
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no serious crime=check fraud. Im sure people have checkbooks in their house, and when a responder shows up, its available for the taking
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we all do things wrong in our lives. its repeition that gets you locked up.
Do you go to prison for drinking and driving once? No
Do you go to prison for trying drugs? Not likely
Shoplifting? No
Pseudo-good faith purchase? possibly.
In reference to the rest of your statement, our inmate workforce i supervised did infact do community stuff, but it was not a prestigious job. There arent alot of people going through months and years of training to pick up trash on the road, or buff floors for old ladies churches.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Cohen on
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Just to clear up a few misconceptions and explain a little further. These guys are under video surveillance 24/ 7 in the FD as well as subject to shake down and drug test. But believe me they can get drugs easier inside a maximum security prison than on the street. Could any of the things people say happen? Yes; can they also happen with any FF or Law? Yes
You really have to understand what this is about to them. Are there some that think this is just a gravy ride? Believe me they don’t last long. This program is voluntary and we cannot force them to do a thing, but we do not have to accept them either. I have sent some back in and have no problem doing so if their hart isn’t in the right place.
It is tougher out here in the FD than inside the CI. They train all the time, they respond at a moment’s notice and this is 24/7. They train during the day with paid staff and train at night with our volunteers. They can have limited down time and have limited activities. We require PT, FF training, house cleaning, maintenance on equipment. We have had those painting vehicles, building, electrical, plumbing.
Their lives are laid out for them and if they step out of line then back in they go, can’t keep an attitude in check back in, do not wish to do your chores back in, do not want to train, back in. This is a one chance no BS program. You go back and do not get to try again.
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Permalink Reply by Olivia Jones on
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Wow how the times are changing. A few decades ago the great state of Georgia was know for its harsh treatment of prioner "Chain Gangs"!!
At that time our bad press wasnt because of the type of prisoner we woild put to work. It wasnt even the work they were doing, it was because of our harsh treatment in brutal conditions and the fact that if the prisoner wanted to work or not he was forced to.
Now we have more of an incentive program where the prisoner has to be of a certian type ie crime commited, behaviour inside, attidue and apperance in general, respect of authority, etc. Meet and exceed physical fitness standards ( I speak from experiance most Volly in coastal Ga cant pass a PT yet we let them work and risk LODD from Preventable health and fitness factors).
And unlike other "forms of redemption" in the clink if you mess up in the sightest God will forgive you, your worship group will give you another chance, after abeat down from your clique you can even get back in. The FD isnt god, groups, or a clique YOU ARE DONE. End of story.In fact things that many of us do on scene without realizing it can put a prisoner offf his FD. Roll your eyes while bone ass tired during overhaul or something and be given an "Are you serious" type command. Most of us will roll the eyes, make a comment, slump your shoulders something while turning around to do it. In our world at most someone will say that irritates me (depending on your actions) to a write up if you make a comment your shouldnt have. In thier world that is an end to thier FF time. I did learn that once you are off a program like this it makes it harder to get any other form of job training or work program inside your facility.
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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So, you don't trust them either? Camera 24/7?
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Gregory, they are provided as a deterrent and to make people like you feel better. Do you realize that the guards on most chain gangs do not even have bullets in the guns they carry?
At least we do monitor and enforce rules to make sure every safe guard is in place. Because if this system fails that just adds validity to the comments made by many on this forum.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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I don't think that it's a safety issue, I'm sure the inmates are well behaved; they've been well vetted and understand the consequences.
What I do think the issue is: Using inmates to supplement firehouse staffing by means of cheap (or free) labor in place of hiring employees. Regardless of the recidivism rate, motivation or trustworthiness of the inmates they are filling slots that should be filled by paid personnel. Any community that chooses to use inmates in lieu of hiring is simply trying to save money.
As as for staffing Volunteer Fire Departments...again the community is choosing NOT to provide for their own fire protection and instead use 'free' prison labor. I don't think using inmates in either case is right or appropriate.
Since prisons are state run, any community that chooses NOT to staff either a paid or volunteer fire department is actually relying on the largess of the greater community (the state). So while a portion of everyone's state taxes are used to support the penal institution(s), most also provide for their own fire department, now they are also paying for a fire department for a community that chooses NOT to provide their own.
And the overarching message? Firefighting can be done by felons. What's next? Department of Public Works/Highway Department? Department of Motor Vehicles (that one may be a poor choice)? Once people accept the use of felons as firefighters, using them elsewhere is not going to be a problem. Pretty soon entire prison populations will be gainfully employed while the rest of the (law abiding) population is unemployed. That's creating jobs with a twist.
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Permalink Reply by Scott Taylor on
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or a prison gaurd!
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Brian, Obviously you are sold on this idea. But if you will read what many of these fire service proffessionals are saying you must see how wrong this idea is. 1) The rehabilitation or second chanse you want to give is good. But the fire service has become respected, trusted and proffessonal. You are suggesting that some one that has gone to school, college, lived their life by accepted community standards and dedicated their lives to become firefighters should have to compete against a felon for a job. That is wrong. 2) Using prinsioners for labor of any kind that takes work from free non felons is wrong, it is in fact slavery, confining someong and working them for no pay. That is also wrong. 3) In my opinion all of your arguments fail. They do not pass the logic test or the smell test. It is a stinky idea. 4) For a community to decide the do not want a fire department (they will not pay for it) but will take one for free is imoral and there fore wrong.
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Now that is a good idea Scott, it makes just as much sense.
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With any project... one must weigh the pros and cons. (no pun intended)
There seems to be a long list of cons here with the possible saving of money and a staffing increase as the only sensible pro. Clearly, this is a bad idea that I feel will end up costing tax payers more than it saves in the end.
The sacrificing of trust and public perception is too much to risk and I would lean towards a fire tax or some other way to get funding for real firefighters. ...The kind of firefighters that have true values. ...The kind of firefighters that the people can feel completely as ease when we show up to help.
Do inmates deserve a second chance? Sure, but let them find a volley company with low standards after they paid "in full" for their crime.
Respectfully, I think you had a great idea to up staffing, but the wrong group of people to do it with. There are a growing number of homeless families that don’t get a bed, a roof, and three meals a day. Why not figure a way to help them instead. Think about ideas like "a roof and food if you volley" program to increase staffing.
I sure hope none of my politicians support this sort of desperate idea.
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You know this program has proven to work and at a substantial cost saving to the citizens we serve. It has proven to help rehabilitate inmates at the same cost it cost us to house them anyway with a higher success rate than any other program in existence. It so far has created 12 more paid fire services jobs that never existed with 3 – 6 more opening soon and allowed us to provide it cost effectively and safely. Just in this county.
It doesn’t and hasn’t taken any jobs from NO ONE. In case you haven’t noticed the economy is it very bad shape, so to allow us to create jobs at savings and do it safely should make people happy. Creating jobs for those people that have worked hard to get this title of Firefighter and allow them work in a chosen field that only employees under 30% of the people trained.
Do you all realize there is only a little over 1 million FF in the US and we protect over 60 billion people and again only under 30% of those are paid FF. Do you honestly believe these people that have worked hard are going to just land a job with numbers like this in such a small target field? Competing for job with these more experienced FF that are losing their jobs because of lay-offs, so in reality the available jobs in this field are being reduced more. Not because of this program, we are trying to create more jobs in this field and fighting the battle from both sides.
For all that have been posting your opinions come up with a more cost effective way to create and save jobs in our chosen profession. Help figure out how these men and women that have busted their butts to be one of the most honorable in this profession can get a job. Without waiting for someone to die or retire or increasing my taxes even more. Please!
And I have been working on a program to help the homeless and underempolyeed.
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