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SCBA pack weight
Our packs have aluminum bottles that weigh 21 1/2 pounds. I have been pushing for composite bottles that weigh around 7 to 8 pounds. I believe the weight of the packs are dangerous they cause fatigue. Don't even get my started on working on a ladder they want to pull you over backwards. Crawling the weight wants to roll the pack around you so you must try to keep it balanced in the center of your back. The shoulder straps have to be so tight that it restricts movement. The guys don't want to wear them when they should. Some of the guys that belong to another department that we call for aid from alot will wait on them to show and use there packs.
Everytime it is brought up I get the same old speech on how when they started they had steel bottles and they were so much heavier. So I weighed a steel bottle and they are almost the same. So I get well aluminum bottles are good forever and composite are only good for 15 years. So my statement is if no one wears them what good are they? Then I have been told we don't average 3 to 5 structure fires a year we can't justifiy the cost. I ask about all the car, tractor, combine fires and was told once that they really were not that important on those calls. I just felt like banging my head against the wall.
We have nice trucks, The packs are great themselves radio interface, voice amplification there nice. But why cut corners on the bottles.
Alot of our guys are not young and 11 or 12 more pounds cantilevered on there backs is hard to work with after awhile of working. Its not good to be afraid of your packs and alot of us are. I have tried wearing them loose and tight and nothing helps. I have tried them with composite bottles and they are fine. We have some well fit, paid firefighters that have joined are all volunteer department that say there too much to work in and now will just wait on there rigs to show to pack up.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Dobson on
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Dropped my pack a time or two and got to wishing I still had it on when someone dug out some kind of smoldering nasty or the wind changed.
I truly do believe a person should wear it most of the time on the fire ground. When I first started the fire department the first time I seen an SCBA I was told "Say hello to your new best friend" and that stuck with me.
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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With a friend like that, who needs an IMENTITY?
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Reply by jacob stern
i think that "we" have no room to complain. when i was a youngin' my dad was lugging around a steel bottle, 3/4 length boots and a long coat. i think the fire service is getting a little too, what do i wanna say; ungreateful for certain things. I mean we have the best of the best in this day and age and LODD havent decreased,and we fight less fires now.....................
I didnt say anything to offend anyone geeze. Im saying being a firefighter is hard work. you've got to be a brute to do it. If these guys dont wanna carry an aluminum pack kick them out of the dept. COMPOSITE BOTTLES ARE AN IMENTITY NOT A NECESSITY.
I think you are too young and naive to comprehend the message you are saying here. There ABSOLUTELY is room to complain. Sure there are the guys hauling steel bottles on their backs with 3/4 boots and long coats, but that was also the modern standard of the day. Prior to that there was no SCBA, prior to that there was no motorized vehicles, prior to that there was citizen bucket brigades......Point is times have changed and improvements were made, it doesn't matter how much "harder" one had it before, there is NO excuse today to not implement the technologies of today.
Composite bottles are not new by any stretch so there is absolutely no reason not to have them. Not to mention the SCBA harness that the bottles interact with are better and safer than some of the archaic packs of yesteryear. Ahh, but we shouldn't complain because it was "tougher" in the day right?
Then you try and throw in the LODD issue. Given your age, this is probably something else you really don't understand. Are the numbers still up, yes, is it because of the same reasons in the past? Absolutely NOT. Let's see some of the changes from the so called "tough years" building construction is light weight and doesn't hold up as well when exposed to fire as past building practices. Furnishings, carpets, etc contain more plastics and produces heat faster, smokier, than the natural products of the past. Buildings are more energy efficient, meaning the same windows, doors, systems etc that keep a home energy efficient does the same job of retaining heat from a fire longer before leading to more intense fires by the time they are discovered and reported.
Let's not forget the definition of an LODD has changed from the past and it now includes anything while one is on duty, up to 24 hours after. This also means anything around the firehouse that isn't even fire related. Point is, the excuse you are using here to justify sticking with heavier SCBA bottles is a poor, unthoughout, excuse.
As for your second post, one does not need to be a brute to do it, stop being so naive. Besides there is no reason to lug around extra weight which is going to sap your strength to do other things. Sure one may be okay for the intial attack, but then change out bottle repeatedly and go back in for overhaul, salvage etc, yes, it does wear on you, even for the "brute". Let's not forget the number of job related back injuries out there, injuries suffered by even many so called "brutes", why risk higher work comp claims because a board is too stupid to advance with modern technolgy? Why sit back and say one needs to be a "brute" to do this job? Strength definately is a plus and is definately something every FF should have, but even the most fit FF, will wear down when consistently exposed to unneccessary wear and tear on their body.
I guess judging by your posts, then that you have aluminum bottles right? I see by your profile pic you aren't wearing 3/4 boots and a long coat....why not? Aren't you "tough" enough, or is it your dept decided to modernize?
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John,
I would suggest reading some of the reply to Jacob regarding the excuse of "when we started there was steel bottles"....times change. There is a reason for health and safety and there is no reason not to upgrade, especially considering there is money. Bottles may only last for 15 years, but the evolution of the SCBA keeps changing, heck in 15 years SCBAs may be the flat pack, so where would that leave the dept then?
The cynic in me would to ask the board why we are getting a brand new rig when we can't even update our PPE. I would suggest that we get some horses and a wagon for a response then if we don't even care about the guys getting the job done.
The realist in me says you need to compound information on numbers concerning back related injuries, the interoperablility with area depts, the cost of work compensation for injuries and so forth. Seems the board can not fathom that things have evolved, the only thing they may understand is numbers....that is probably the best approach, give them numbers. Check sites like the USFA, NFPA, NIOSH, OSHA, etc. You could also check with insurance providers and ascertain a typical cost of work comp injuries.
If there is people above the board I would make the case to them, but consider a public campaign as well to inform the public about the needless risks.
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let me clarify a composite bottle is a "luxury"
Let me clarify, grow up some, adults are talking here.
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Ok Jacob, Reread the post before you comment again! We are talking about bottles not the whole dam pack! The bottle is the tank that holds the air. I never even said or haven't read anything about the brand in this post.
Ok so you understand two composite bottles (air tanks) weigh 5 1/2 pound lighter than one aluminum bottle (air tank). The composite bottle weighs in about 8 pounds. The aluminum bottle weight is 21 1/2 pounds. Not talking about the whole pack just the air tank or some may call it the bottle.
Tell me to get back to reading maybe you should read the post before commenting.
Jacob if you don't read the post before saying stuff like that on here some of these guys will eat you alive on here. That will be counter produtive to learning from this website.
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I would like for everyone to report jacobs post to firefighter nation webchief he does not belong on here.
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Permalink Reply by James Hawk on
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ok, how about before you post on here you you put your brain ing gear, and then engage your fingers. a lot of the people replying on here are career firefighters. if you take the time and read the forums on here you will also find that a lot of us dont "run arounf with light bars on your pickup trucks" nor do we have stickers "reading "first in last out" or "smoke eater"" i personally dont have any lights on my van, and the only sticker that i have on my helmet other thatn an american flag and a firefighter I cresent is a "no fear" sticker that my father gave to myself and another member of my dept. when we graduated firefighter 1.
just because someone is a volunteer soesnt mean that they are a joke. we can fight fire just like anyone else. my dept. has around 80-90 calls a year. we dont have a mini pumper, we have an engine. when we get a call you better be moving when you get there because we dont stand around and watch. my first real structure fire was a barn fire and we were there for 10 hours working hard.
real firemen also see through someone who is posing as a firefighter and trying to get points. also use spell check when youre trying to spel "amenity".
personally i dont care what kind of pack i have to wear, as long as i can breathe. we have aluminum bottles in my dept, and we make do with them. longest ive had to wear one was probably 3 or 4 hours at a structure fire. im not complaining.
good luck on pursuing a grant for your dept. hopefully you can get your membership to come around on this issue, and either wear the packs you have consistantly, or get composite bottles.
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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Hasta la vista, then. Shut down your profile and go back to the Big Time.
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I just looked at the Dunkirk Fire Department website. Okay. I suppose your chief will be pleased to know that you are stirring up some 53,000 members of the fire service with your filthy attitude. I will follow you now until the door hits you in the ass.
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seriously. you took the quote from my status that says why i joined and used that to clarify your point. ok. i also joined because i grew up around the firehouse. ive been around emergency services since i was 3 days old when my dad brought me to a rescue squad meeting. being a firefighter is something ive wanted my whole life, and ive worked my ass off to get it. yes i enjoy helping people. nothing beats the feeling at 4 in the morning when a victim comes up to you as your picking up after a call and says thank you for what you do. that line comes from several nights in firefighter 1 when people were talking about why they joined. my hazmat instructor is the person i got the "break s*** and help people" line. thats what he put on his application. i guess it worked for him, and i thought it was kind of funny. am i in it for the lights, sirens, and breaking stuff? hell no. im a firefigher because i want to be able to look back on my life someday and know that i made a difference in somebodies life.
maybe you should take some time to read other posts made by people who have been in the fire service longer than you or i have been alive before you jump down all of our throats.
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