Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Firefighter Nation WebChief on December 3, 2010 at 12:58pm

All

A few points of clarification

a) This site is FOR firefighters. It is not for "wannabees" and non firefighters. It is impossible to moderate and review every thread. We rely, and always have, on users to report problems. There is swift immediate action to remove spammers, users who act inappropriately, etc. If it's reported, it's usually dealt with within a few hours. That hasn't changed, regardless who 'owns' the site.

b) The forums are an important part of the site, but they are not the ONLY part of the site that has to be managed. We're continuing to add tons of new content and in 2011 a full content site with training, education, more multimedia, more social media, etc. will be coming. That doesn't make the forums less important, and do in fact have a few users who have authority to report things more aggressively and we'll continue to expand that program. We're also adding more staff in 2011 to tackle overall site management.

c) You are going to have 'Wannabees' on any internet forum. Again, report them and they are dealt with. If you, as member, only have a sarcastic response to a thread that is a little "off", regardless who is posting, then think twice before posting. It only ends up turning a potentially problematic thread into a definite time wasting, pointless thread that goes nowhere. Those types of threads will be closed and deleted.

The fact is the MAJORITY of discussions, the MAJORITY of people here are posting great content and interacting wonderfully. There are always going to be, even if every single member was somehow 'screened' (which is impossible), people who post off-topic, don't post in the right areas, etc. It happens, report it and move on. You're only wasting your time and ours by turning a useless thread into one that turns into a hijacked, sarcastic thread that simply seeks to make fun of the poster. Believe it or not, some of those "new" members that get dumped on might actually have potential to become legitimate members of this site who are actively engaged in a positive way, but far too often anyone with a posting method, spelling error, etc. is simply dumped on from the word go. That's not how things are going should happen. Report it or just plain ignore it....perhaps the easier route.

No one is saying don't tell new users to search for topics, or point out that perhaps the thread isn't really appropriate. But...some of you are a bit over the top in how you do so and that's about the only time something gets out of hand and turns into five pages of poking fun. It's not the end of the world here, just ignore it. And yes, when those 'types' of users are reported - if they are not outright removed, they are definitely contacted about their behavior. We don't, in fact, want 10 threads about driving on ice. That isn't the issue here really...no one is going to dispute that.

And lastly, Mike had the best suggestion. IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE. That is REALLY the best way to ensure that 'pointless' threads vanish extremely quickly. By responding at all, you are merely keeping the topic active and at the top of the threads. If everyone ignored the threads they think are dumb, rather than respond, within hours no one would even know they existed.

Thanks
Dave Iannone
Founder
FirefighterNation.com

Permalink Reply by Firefighter Nation WebChief on December 3, 2010 at 1:05pm

And that, Mike, is the BEST thing you can do. By responding to threads, it simply stays at the forefront..if it is ignored, it goes away.

Permalink Reply by Firefighter Nation WebChief on December 3, 2010 at 1:08pm

Heather, you can use the Contact Form at the bottom of the page, which goes to several of the webmasters right away. Unless its late night or late day weekends, usually things are dealt with quickly, or just message the WebTeam account here.

Permalink Reply by Firefighter Nation WebChief on December 3, 2010 at 1:29pm

Jack

Most of the reports come in via email from a few individuals, we can't reply to every one of them individually unfortunately but they are all read. Again, we're adding more staff in 2011 and will make sure that's on the agenda.

A little chop busting is fine, but there is a point where a thread stays alive because of the busting, not because of the topic...which is why the thread was closed the other day. There wasn't much point in it's existence. And again, had it just been ignored, it would have fallen off the page so quickly no one would have seen it.

Yes, new members have a different mindset than "traditional" forum users, and that's only going to increase with people used to posting short comments on Facebook, Twitter, etc. And users -- including legitimate users -- are going to continue to post threads about topics that were discussed in the past and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

On your last note, I TRULY wish there was a 'flag as inappropriate' link every user could use. Ning just doesn't have it .. supposed to be coming soon. Again, we'll probably give a few more users access to one tool that does allow that in early 2011, but right now there's no global public-facing link so we have to rely on the contact form.

The new FFN will blend the best of the community aspects (user generated content, multimedia, forums) with social network content and traditional training, education, news, etc. content. That's coming in the first quarter.

The fact Facebook drives so many new users (more readers than members, but still a fairly significant amount) is a good thing -- far more people 'read' forums and every other piece of content here than actually participate. The 90/10/1 rule applies really...out of 100 readers, maybe 10 are actual 'members' and 1 of those chooses to engage in discussion. The forums make up about 10-15% of overall site traffic. Our Facebook "fan" base is approaching 100,000 and that doesn't include the tens of thousands more who see their friends "liking" our content and visiting that are not fans or members. The universe of non member/fans visiting the site -- but still likely in the fire service -- is pretty tremendous. That doesn't include some new ways we'll be integrating users and content from all the great FireEMSBlogs.com blogs.

The issues everyone has about how "today's" users act on forums compared to how it was 5 or 10 years ago is true in every forum.....not just here, and not just in the fire service ... and probably that same mentality almost assuredly works its way into the offline world as well.

Permalink Reply by Firefighter Nation WebChief on December 3, 2010 at 2:08pm

Jack

Yes we're all always working together to distinguish the site from everyone else -- hence why we are essentially asking people to report things and not basically hijack threads and take them to an even worse less professional place than they even started at, which has happened quite a few times. Shouldn't the people responding being held to the same standard? That comment I made wasn't about the goals of this site, more a take on the reality of the web today in general.

Permalink Reply by Capt. Chris W. Button on December 3, 2010 at 4:37pm

"If we lower the bar anymore, we're gonna have to dig a ditch for it."

I like that! Kind of like an employee evaluation that said, "Employee has hit rock bottom and has started to dig."

Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on December 3, 2010 at 6:12pm

Juniors and Explorers
The place for junior and explorer firefighters to connect, share program ideas and more.
Yes; there's actually a category for them.
Unfortunately, all too often; they don't go there.
The person in question had 0 years experience.
The person in question was also a young female, which raised the "wow" factor.
Bonus points for drama.
WE the members, drive content.
So, when a post/blog about a young females "experiences" outhits one by Chris Naum, Homer Robertson and Billy Schmidt combined, WE have pretty much summed up what we want for content.
I agree with most everything that has been said here.
I still believe that the best place to stop some of it is at the application phase. It might stop the spam and the whacker/wannabee pretenders.
There was a reason why I left Firehouse.com.

Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on December 3, 2010 at 6:19pm

Hey WebChief:

Thanks. For us old (and blind) people, maybe the "Contact FFN Form" link could be 18 pt font, instead of 8 pt font - which I can hardly see. And maybe it could be a big side or top link for easier access - like the "Add Reply" box?

And maybe under the heading of each new discussion a link can be added "Concerns about this discussion"... then when spammers and other nutty people show up, each of us can click on the "concerns" link and quickly send you a comment about a specific link, such as "investigate this further." And certainly, when you get 5 or 10 concern clicks from us the masses, then you can move those concerns to the top of the pile. Or you could make it a flag, just like you have the "Like This" page flags, but a "Concerns" flag - with an add the comment option.

Just some thoughts.

I appreciate your efforts.

P.S. If I can ask for the sun, moon, and stars all in one post - can you find a way to let us spell / grammar check in our posts for us simple people to use?

Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on December 3, 2010 at 6:31pm

FREEDOM!!!!!

Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on December 3, 2010 at 6:47pm

Is it just me, or has your discussion been sanitized?
I swear there were some comments earlier that are no longer here.

Permalink Reply by Jason Koontz on December 3, 2010 at 7:25pm

I'll preface this by saying your decisions are based on your own views, and I'll not be the one to tell you whether you're right or wrong. I will say this though. Ive seen plenty of good points here, but I think we're missing some. We were all new once, and we remember how every call back then was a huge deal. Would we say the same thing about those very same calls now? Age and experience have a huge impact on the point of view. I understand the frustration. I'm sure we all have it with some of the things we've read here. But isn't it better to teach the newbies rather than destroy their desire to learn? Even though they're new, aren't they still in the same family we all claim to belong to? This site and its forums are wonderful. I've learned many things, used a few concepts in the training I put on for my people, and use some of the ideas on calls. It's an excellent place to learn. Granted, many of the newer members treat this like facebook, and they don't understand how forums work, how their questions have probably already been asked, and thus should go look prior to starting the same question. Their inability to "look before they leap" can translate to a fire scene, and needs to be addressed. But wouldn't it be better to teach them this, since I'm sure we'll be working with some of them, so that when they get to a front door, they remember to check it before they break it in and cause a backdraft? Isn't it better to take care of our new people, to teach them the right ways, rather than tear them apart, so that they leave the site, maybe even the fire service, and continue on with life with the crappiest impression of the fire service? Think of it this way. They'll all grow into voting, tax-paying citizens. Do you want the public with you or against you next time you need a levy increase? Do you want firefighters in our fire service that love being apart of it, or hating every minute they're here, and just doing it for the paycheck? It's up to us to teach them. We should do it correctly

Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on December 3, 2010 at 7:28pm

You are correct, Jack.

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