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How Do You Drive a Fire Engine on Icy Roads?
This is a long video but... after watching all these cars and a bus drive totally out of control, along comes a responding Seattle Fire Department Type 1 Engine. No sliding, no out of control driving... what gives? Not having a lick of experience driving in snow and ice, I have to ask, is it the weight of the engine, chains?
How on earth can you respond to an incident when the roads are this icy?
Note: Video for this post is embedded below.
CBz
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bekks on
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Ummm, I know you won't get many brush fires in the winter (we don't)... but only running with half a tank of water? Isn't that asking for trouble from both a safety and lawsuit standpoint?
If you are worried about 125 Gallons of water it tells me that someone is driving too fast for the road and weather conditions. Period.
I'm in Canada... we know winter.
Sorry mate, I'm with Mr. Meadows on this one.
If snow is your issue, the weight helps sink you down and gives you better traction. Back in my EMS days I drove both a high-top van style ambulance and a modular box style with dual rear axels. You would think the box would be better with the wider ground base and more drive wheel surface. Not so. I had the back end get loose on me a couple of times with the modular in the winter but NEVER in the van. The weight was on the two rear wheels and it sunk in better.
Properly inflated tires is also important. The "less air for that more tire on the road" wives-tail is asking for trouble.
Whatever vehicle you drive... slow down.
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Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on
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while the entertaining aspect are the morons in cars and SUV's, the city bus is awesome and makes you realize just how slick that location is..... if you look very closely as the engine comes down the hill , you Can see the metalic flash a couple times IT certainly looks like the engine has Tire chains on... While Seattle is known for its rain I am sure the climate gets cold enough to have enough snowy weather .. but maybe the seattle guys can serve the forum better....
I would mention That NOT shutting off the wig wag flashers (high beam flashers) which serve ONLY to blind the crap out of anyone you come upon in city operations and serve to cause blindness at accident scenes for on coming traffic being blinded and Potentially running over crew members civies EMS and police CRews , in inclemant weather LESS is way better... it also makes it easier on your eyes in heavier snow and fog conditions , Please Use god's gift occasionally (your Brain) IF You dunno where the switch is SHOULD you be qualified To operate it??? especially in weather conditions like this???
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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It's also an interesting video to highlight tunnel vision- at the 2.18 minute mark there's a nose-to-tail and with all good intentions, bystanders rush over to help, yet in those conditions they could be the next victims with another out of control and sliding car, bus or truck...
along comes a responding Seattle Fire Department Type 1 Engine. No sliding, no out of control driving... what gives?
Mike, they were meant to stage 300 metres up the road!!!! ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Ron McRae on
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Here in MN we get MORE than our fair share of slick roads and icy conditions. Simply put, turn OFF the Engine retarder and take it slow.
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Unless I've missed it here in all the responses, why turn off the retarder? (I assume we're talking about the exhaust brake?)
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Well Capt BzY, fire trucks have more weight therefore with good tires alone, they can get better grip than a car. The braking issue is still a concern because you still need to stop that weight as well.
We have on spot chains mounted underneath the trucks and they work when you flip a switch to engage them. They (the wheels) need to be moving to whip the short chain beneath the tire and the road, so if you hit the brakes on ice and lock up the rear wheels, you essentially have NO CHAINS. Same goes for heavy snow conditions, the snow obstructs the short chain from getting underneath the tires and essentially are useless.
With that said, we use the old fashion chains and it is an art to get them on fast and "right". Every snowstorm we chain all the trucks even though they have the on-spots. Braking with these is "chains all the time" and less liability. We have used the on-spots to get a truck into an incident, and then post incident had to chain the truck while on scene to get that truck back out or down an icy driveway. This in my opinion is what the on-spots are for, emergency or short notice conditions change and you have to engage to continue.
We also have a SOG on all exhaust brakes and retarders shut off during slippery conditions, the driver shall drive to the road conditions, meaning extra distance, slower speeds, and no hard fast braking action.
Nothing beats the real, hand made, hand installed tire chains.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Gemberling on
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This is our main engine and it does quite well in the slick stuff. As far as braking we'll use the exhaust brake quite a bit in the winter and extreme conditions we'll actually put it in N for stopping on ice. Seems to work but you have to think ahead and know your road conditions.
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Permalink Reply by John Dobson on
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When early I talked of doing a sliding in the the brush truck it was with the full tank of water. Speed well that was about 5 miles an hour or less. We knew there was a stop sign at the bottom of the hill. The truck was in 4 wheel drive the road was a solid sheet of ice not snow.
Snow is easy driving, Ice well thats a whole different game. Here in Southern Indiana we get alot of ice and just some snow.
You don't need any speed on ice gravity will take is course. I have been stopped in my POV slid down a hill a couple hundred feet. We have even been able to spin a car in park 180 degrees by pushing it with are hands to get it facing the right way again.
The full tank of water will take the weight off of the front tires. A half tank adds weight to the rear. It balances this truck out and I got to stand on this point because I have drove it both ways. Duals on the rear are always horrible for traction thats why we don't put them on any brush truck. I am not saying that everyone should drain half there water. It is what works best with our truck.
MY POVs are pick-ups also much weight in the back is as bad or worse than not enough.
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Permalink Reply by Davin Eshelman on
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Carefully...That's how.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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I don't know about you Ralph, but none of our rigs, (Ambulance or Engine), has cruise control. LOL
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Hmmmm. Wonder what the difference is? Perhaps the rigs themselves. Our engine seems to behave better in slick conditions with the ex-brake on. We roll via highway to most calls as we are a rural FD.
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