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What is Your Department's SOPs on Turnout Gear on Medical Runs?
I was told I can not wear my bunker pants on aid runs. Since that time I have been exposed to more bodily fluids than I care to talk about. After a talk with the chief he said wear them if I like. But the next in the officer in line says NO. My First Responder instructor taught us to wear them they are just part of BSI.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Dobson on
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Also I did not mean to sound rude about the ambulance. I just wanted to let everyone know we don't have one. If we did I would see that we had EMS pants, I am a board member.
We are a fire department, Are township does not pay us for EMS but we do it anyway. The township does a good job at thanking us for funding we have for fire so it works out in the wash. We just have the BLS license.
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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We wear our bunker pants on all EMS calls..If they can't provide you with EMS pants to wear then they have to let you wear the Bunkers. No order can override your safty, it's the same as them telling you not to wear your SCBA on a fire.
Your dept. is opening themselves up for a law suit or at least a lot of hospital bills. Any time a firefighter is exposed to Blood or body fluids,etc. That firefighter has the right to have blood test etc. along with documentation per incident. Your dept has to start paying everytime a ff is exposed or feels the've been exposed. They'll change there tune fast...Especialy when the words "Talk to my Lawyer." comes into play.
By the way we do 250,000+ runs & 2000+ working fires per yr. Never a problem with cross contamination. Even if you can't get to a gear washer spray it off with a hose, washing your gear all the time isn't a good for the gear. We don't have gear washers at every station either.
PS: The Above is factual for Indiana. All FF outside Indiana please check your state for applicable laws.
Thankyou
God Bless
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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After a talk with the chief he said wear them if I like. But the next in the officer in line says NO.
Last time I checked, the chief was at the top of the chain of command, meaning the chief has the final say in matters. So if the chief said it is OK to wear the gear, then it is difficult for a subordinate to supercede said order. Best bet would be to have the chief establish an SOG in the matter.
As for wearing the bunker gear, I see it as a personal decision, however as a taxpayer, and one with a clean-picky wife, I wouldn't want FF's wearing bunker gear in my house for EMS calls. This is also the general consensus with majority of the dept. We had a little stretch with one crew who geared up for all EMS calls with the BSI as an excuse. The guys don't do so anymore due to some "talking to" by other members. We do have uniforms and we do have PPE available and if it is decided to wear bunkers, it can and would be done, just majority of EMS calls, there really is no need to wear bunkers.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on
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Ditto
I think it is a fine idea as long as it is cleaned regularly after structure fires.
Rather have someone puke over my gear than me. Or bleed or whatever.
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Permalink Reply by kara-lee allen on
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we must wear some time of gear that makes ts easy for patients to recognize us as the fire dept. that can be coveralls, uniform, or turn out gear. usually my turn out gear is the easiest to find and get on, so i generally end up wearing that... not helmet, not structure gloves (definately non-latex medical gloves though), not belaclava, and unless its cold i rarely wear my turn out jacket (its big and bulky when trying to deal with a patient in their homes) we also have little medical booties to fit over our boots/shoes when entering someones home (to keep their house clean/save their carpet.
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Permalink Reply by Scott on
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The chief is at the top. A lower officer tells you "no" when you show up for the call, then let the officer know you are going that way, or not going at all. Either way, let him know the chief gave you permission. It is up to the chief to relay that information on to his officers (the best way would be an SOG, or some kind of written statement).
Another part you wrote that I picked up on and most others haven't commented on is that you do not have station uniforms because of being a volunteer department. Providing each FF proper BSI is a must! NFPA doesn't say, "employees must provide their own BSI...". This is the DEPARTMENT'S duty. If they are not going to provide you proper BSI to EMS calls, to include a station uniform, then they are forced in to giving you the option of wearing your bunker gear. Surgical aprons are do not cover full body, and my guess could be cumbersome on a bad call. (and before people start talking about BSI - it does cover more than just gloves, face mask, mouth cover.)
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Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on
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We are supposed to wear ours, but it comes down to a personal preference for the crew. Some do some don't. (the newbies do, the old salties don't)
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Permalink Reply by Matthew Robertson on
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I've been around with this exact discussion in my current department. We are a small, volunteer department in rural south-west New Mexico. I wear my bunker pants on any call I respond to. I am currently licensed at the EMS- First Responder level here in New Mexico, but was an EMT-Basic in North Carolina back in 2002-2006. Everything I've ever been taught began with and strongly emphasised scene safety and BSI.
What happens when you pull up on a scene and the call is actually something other than what was dispatched? What happens when you are exposed to a deadly virus or other communicable blood-borne pathogen and you are not protected with anything other than latex gloves and possibly a mask? All your Chief will say is, "I'm sorry, but you should have protected yourself better."
Take a stand. If your company officer will not listen or somehow objects, take it up the chain of command. Remember, this is the kind of stuff that leads to lawsuits if someone is exposed unnecessarily due to department negligence and the Chief isn't the ultimate authority, the City Council or Board of County Commissioners is where the buck finally stops at the local level.
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Yep. sounds very familiar, Patti. But from the legality standpoint of the dept, it is their job to provide it. Too many volunteer depts, because of cash flow or old thought processes, try to say they don't have to follow all NFPA codes. They do. If they don't, then they are liable for damage done. That can be as small as reimbursing the one FF for purchasing new personal clothes to replace the ones puked on (example given earlier in the thread), to a FF contracting something and paying for him (or her) and the family for years to come. If the dept does supply and you chose not to use/wear it then at least the dept can say it was there. That might not clear them (the dept) completely, but it will cover them a lot.
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I was issued all of my gear within a week of my application being submitted. I do wear them on all calls. We went on a run where the lady was a neat freak and she was politely informed that we need to keep them on for safety reasons. I have noticed that my station will wear their gear no matter what. When main comes out it is a 50/50.
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Or you can contact OSHA..... That will get some attention.
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We don't have a turnout washer at my station, so if I am doing an all weekend ride along I will grab my guys gear and take it in for a wash. Yes I do tell them. Hate the smell of icky turnouts... Yuck
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