The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
ADA and Firefighters
I was wondering how people felt about recruits who are disabled going through academy? What is your opinion on this? We have a recruit with uses a handicap placard whenever he goes someplace, even to the station. He is very overweight, I would like to say grossly. I do not know the reason for his acceptance except maybe to satisfy a portion of the American with Disabilities Act. That way no discrimination is show? Or to prove a point that maybe he should not have joined? I don't know the full reasoning so this is only my viewpoint.
How do other stations handle applications from those with handicaps?
I know that the three out stations that I drill with do not feel comfortable being on a call with this person cause if poop hit the fan we do not trust that he would be able to perform. If he is on a call with me do I as a probie have the right to tell my commanding officer that I do not feel safe in this persons hands or trust his abilities?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Stephanie Shirk on
-
Same Standards yes, but in a volunteer department without doubt they cannot fire you for refusing an order for a reason. And in a career a department if you dont listen to your boss your screwed!
-
Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
-
Stephanie,
This is where I typically get into trouble. Your comment is bullshit.
"...I am simply stating that you do not have to follow any order just because it is given too you." I wonder what your Chief would think of that attitude.
"...If the conditions are unsafe and you feel as if you cannot perform them because of fear then you can tell your officer that you cant do it. Of course the conditions are going to be unsafe, house fires often are. If you're afraid then you need to find a more comfy hobby.
All of this sage advice and only 1 year in.
-
-
okay clearly none of you are understanding what I am saying.... but thats expected! Forget I am a dumb female probie who knows nothing... lets hope we are never in a fire anywhere near each other cause you may have to rely on me one day!
Its a shame.... I really thought these people would be different!
-
-
Stephie
Drop the histrionics, if you think none of us are understanding you then maybe you need to reassess what it is that you're saying, and how you're saying it.
You keep repeating that orders don't have to be followed, then somehow attempt to disown your own statement. Regardless, if you were in my station I'm sure I'd be able to work with you. With or without your self-pity at not being understood.
-
Permalink Reply by Gary Stevenson on
-
Stephanie... I've found it difficult to follow the flow with all the posts in this open discussion but IMO I think there is something to learn from everyone's posts. Don't get defensive and shutdown, you're going to miss out on some pearls of wisdom. Sure, at times it gets passionate but this is passionate life.
Remember that you're communicating through text. No inflection, no body language, and none of these in return as you convey your message and it's not being received the way you're intending.
Eleven years ago I was just a dumb, male, probie. I am now not as dumb, still male, and no longer a probie but I learn something every single day, and will never know it all. Take the knocks that come with learning. This isn't working at the corner convenience store serving up Slurpees. Like it or not, you have to earn your way and this is only done through learning and experience. Borrowing a few quotes I had yelled at many times early on in both my fire and military careers, "Shut up and listen", "Ask questions when you don't understand. If you have doubt ask", and "Never give up. Everyone screws up".
-
-
Vic,
Of course, it can happen in any job, there are always slackers. The culture in every department is different, some may turn a blind eye towards the slackers, others won't. But the point here though, is that we have a person saying that it's okay to refuse an order, on the fireground, on the grounds that a person may simply not want to do a particular task or is "afraid". I don't see that blatant attitude being tolerated in any paid department.
Furthermore, this goes to the point that in (far too) many VFD's this is both a common and acceptable practice.
As for the IAFF protecting its members, I'd suggest a hard long look at the National Education Association and the American Federation of Teachers, and let me know how easy it is to fire a teacher, or discipline one.
-
-
Jack-well I have to have respect for that... I do fall back to self pity at times and good point I will reassess....
I am simply stating from a legal standpoint it is possible to disobey orders and not get removed from a fire department. I am not suggesting it at all but its possible, cowardly, dangerous to other and Id go so far to say even unpatriotic but still possible.
Gary- Glad to hear your still male, lol and I agree with what you said you do need to earn your respect in this job which I do very well in person but like you said this is the internet no emotion can convey and I can be a little sensitive at times
-
Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
-
I am simply stating from a legal standpoint it is possible to disobey orders and not get removed from a fire department. I am not suggesting it at all but its possible, cowardly, dangerous to other and Id go so far to say even unpatriotic but still possible.
Stephanie,
The issue here is in how you stated this. As Gary and I talked about here it is one thing if ordered onto a roof that is sagging, that IS a safety issue and command doesn't always know nor see the condidtions.
It is something else to ignore an order because you are scared. Being scared is a natural occurance, but that is why we train so to push fear aside and get the job done. If afraid of heights, and ordered up a ladder to perform a rescue, vent, etc, and you refuse, then THAT is a definate problem. There is no room for such excuses. If you are afraid of heights, that is something to work out on the training ground, not the fireground.
In the end it does depend upon the conditions in which orders were refused. Being scared really won't fly too far in a dept, unless it's a social club aspect. The fears can be worked on etc, sort of a second chance, but there are basic job functions to be performed and if you can't do them, one shouldn't be on the job.
-
-
But you also do not want to have someone SCARED while trying to complete a task - because then they are not effective - they are distracted and that will lead to death and injury.......I would rather someone tell me BEFORE they get in over their head, than do a task and tell me later they were scared
I disagree Heather,
Being scared is a natural aspect of the job, especially if it is the first time doing something. This is why there is training and so forth, so that fear is not the driving force, but doing the job. If there are fears, they should be addressed on the training ground, if personal issues are involved, the person should be going to the training officer , chief, etc to WORK on those concerns, to overcome them.
Heights is an easy fear to comment on, this is a part of the job that is expected of any FF to do, climb ladders, be exposed to heights etc. When the time comes to climb that ladder for real, it is because of a life threat, to do VES, to ventilate etc, it means there is a job to do. Saying you won't do it because you are scared is wrong and puts other people at risk. If you are too scared to perform any job function, then you don't belong on the job.
Now there are ways to work on such fears, but if they can not be overcome, there should be no reason keeping someone. The fireground is not the place to say you are too scared. You are there as a FF, you have a job to do. If scared, you resort to your training.
I know several times I was scared, but training kicked in and the job got done. I can recall a time when I truly did not want to go in, but had to because it was my job, training kicked in. Being scared heightens the awareness level even more so that you are a bit more careful, but being scared should not be a driving force to refuse to do a task.
I can speak of 2 personnel, no longer with the FD, who are gone because they said they were scared. One was afraid of heights and refused to go up a ladder, that was the pivitol point of him losing the job. Another said he would not go in as a RIT member, he never worked another day after that. Being too scared to do the job is a serious issue, but shouldn't be a reason to refuse to do the job. On the fireground people are counting on you.....either get the job done, or turn in your gear.
-
Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on
-
Actually Stephanie in my department that can and will fire you. This is a no cause state so if you show up and look cross eyed you could get fired.
I am not afraid to do my job, but I know that there is no way in hell I can pull a 300lb + man in full gear out of a building. Even my Lt does not think he could pull this guy out nor would he even think of putting him on a roof to do vent. I don't want to work with someone who could keel over while in a building then have his death on my brain cause I could not help him out. Would anyone want that?
-
-
Stephanie,
I am a probie. I have been with my department for a year and a half, just completed academy (I started going to drills 6 months before academy started). This is a good place to learn. You may not always like what you hear, but the good thing about it is you get to hear different opinions and advice and learn from that. These people can piss you off (right Jack), but listen to what they say, why they say it, and learn from it. It will make you a better FF.
-
-
My Lt says that orders can be disobeyed only if there is clear and present danger to your life and the lives of others. But if you are going to tell the OIC "No" you better be able to communicate why because you could be seeing something that he does not.
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
