The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Tennessee Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Subscription Issue
JASON HIBBS
WPSD
Reprinted with Permission
OBION COUNTY, Tenn. - Imagine your home catches fire but the local fire department won't respond, then watches it burn. That's exactly what happened to a local family tonight.
Related
- WPSD: Firefighters Watch as Home Burns to the Ground
- WPSD: More Fallout Following House Fire
- USAToday: Firefighters watch house burn because owner hadn't paid $...
- MSNBC: No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn
FireEMSBlogs.com Updates
A local neighborhood is furious after firefighters watched as an Obion County, Tennessee, home burned to the ground.
The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn't do anything to stop his house from burning.
Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay.
The mayor said if homeowners don't pay, they're out of luck.
This fire went on for hours because garden hoses just wouldn't put it out. It wasn't until that fire spread to a neighbor's property, that anyone would respond.
Turns out, the neighbor had paid the fee.
"I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong," said Gene Cranick.
Because of that, not much is left of Cranick's house.
They called 911 several times, and initially the South Fulton Fire Department would not come.
The Cranicks told 9-1-1 they would pay firefighters, whatever the cost, to stop the fire before it spread to their house.
"When I called I told them that. My grandson had already called there and he thought that when I got here I could get something done, I couldn't," Paulette Cranick.
It was only when a neighbor's field caught fire, a neighbor who had paid the county fire service fee, that the department responded. Gene Cranick asked the fire chief to make an exception and save his home, the chief wouldn't.
We asked him why.
He wouldn't talk to us and called police to have us escorted off the property. Police never came but firefighters quickly left the scene. Meanwhile, the Cranick home continued to burn.
We asked the mayor of South Fulton if the chief could have made an exception.
"Anybody that's not in the city of South Fulton, it's a service we offer, either they accept it or they don't," Mayor David Crocker said.
Friends and neighbors said it's a cruel and dangerous city policy but the Cranicks don't blame the firefighters themselves. They blame the people in charge.
"They're doing their job," Paulette Cranick said of the firefighters. "They're doing what they are told to do. It's not their fault."
To give you an idea of just how intense the feelings got in this situation, soon after the fire department returned to the station, the Obion County Sheriff's Department said someone went there and assaulted one of the firefighters.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
-
"There are issues of "Criminal Intent" that come into play, along with many other factors, that you would deem irrelevant anyway, so no point in my listing them."
So now you can read my mind?
You have no idea what I would deem relevant or irrelevant.
How do you know that "you could never get a cop to enforce it". Do you know the Obion County Sheriff? Is your reliable source an Obion County law enforcement officer - or one from anywhere else in Tennessee?
How do you know that the D.A.would toss it? Do you know the Obion County D.A.?
If the homeowner was trying to get the fire chief to alter a city policy by offering money, that might be interpreted as "criminal intent".
You are using fallacious assumptions as debate points.
I don't know for sure if anyone in Obion County would pursue criminal charges against the homeowner for Attempted Bribery, but what he did certainly seems to fit the definition. Even if there's no arrest or prosecution, if it fits the definition of a felony under the Tennessee criminal code, it's still a crime. Getting away with it makes it no less a crime under those circumstances.
-
Permalink Reply by Herb Genelly III on
-
Ben,
I couldn't help myself................BUT.......................the FACTS are #1) The NEIGHBOR offered to pay, on behalf of Mr. Cranic, not Mr. Cranic #2)The neighbor requested the FD put out the fire to protect HIS property, based on what he already paid for service, not Mr. Cranic.
I believed you used the Hospital analogy to state that hospitals turn away non-insured patients making it necessary for them to go to county hospitals .........but you neglect to mention the hospital would accept someone who is uninsured how has an open checkbook, offering to PAY to help treat them (not bribery as they are paying for a service), just like the Chief was offered money to help put out the fire.
-
Permalink Reply by Fireslayer960 on
-
No, not so much "read your mind" as read your posts. Your track record shows that you toss aside anything and everything that doesn't share your view point.
Of course! My buddy sitting here is the Obion County Sheriff! And the D.A. He is also the jailer, the Dog catcher and part time News reporter! (The paper cant afford a full time reporter)
Face it Ben, you only see what you want to see, you only hear what you want to hear. You try and side track the facts by using some foolish comment like, How do you know? Do you know OUR sheriff? I tried to tell you that indeed I have someone far more knowledgeable about the law, then you or I, sitting here, but you refuse to even listen to his comments.
One last thing Ben, and I know this might be hard for you. Is there any way that you might be able to learn a new word? Your repeated use of the word fallacious is becoming redundant and boring.
-
-
Herb, are you really this dense?
Look up in the top-line post. The news story says "The Cranicks told 9-1-1 they would pay firefighters, whatever the cost, to stop the fire before it spread to their house."
The rest of your point is moot, because as usual, you're wrong on the facts.
-
-
Which question?
-
Permalink Reply by Billy Lilly on
-
Ben I'm enjoying you getting proved wrong. It's kinda funny. My uncle is a attorny. He states that this bribry thing you keep bringing up is crap. The man would be paying for a service. Which means it no bribry. Second listen Ben. I'm a memmber of a volunteer fire deaprtment. We do stuff to raise money. We do bingo every thursday. To pay for a 1 million dollar building. Are fire department is in a small town. That is bordred by 2 countys. We run the town and both counties. We do alot of stuff for the public. we do a easter egg hunt. Where we get no money for it. We do dinners rent out the building. Do door to door fund drive. sounds like to me this fire department wants to sit on there butts and recive 75 dollars when they arent doing nothing. I think you forget why we do what we do. Its to help people. When we do door to door fund drive. We get money from people. But we also have people who dont donate. But we still will put there house fire out. You can try to cut it anyway you want to. But what they did was wrong. The fire chief was wrong. The firefighters were wrong. The mayor is wrong . the county is wrong. And when the guy says ill pay whatever it costs to mput out the fire. Then put out the fire. It just means a bigger operating budget for the year. Becuase you diffently are going to get more then $75 .
-
-
Ben,
It's on Video where it is clearly stated that the NEIGHBOR OFFERED. Geeze Ben, I can't make this stuff up!
-
-
Fireslayer,
That is not true. I am very open-minded.
The problem with your statement is that there are rules for logical debate, but you and others dismiss my use of those rules as "some foolish comment". Those rules include avoiding of Logical Fallacies. Logical fallacies are sometimes called "Errors in Reasoning". When people use demonstrable Logical Fallacies, ergo, their reasoning is in error. Those are not my rules - they've been around for centuries.
You are using the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy when you say "I tried to tell you that indeed I have someone far more knowledgeable then (sic) you or I sitting here, but you refuse to even listen to his comments."
1) It is impossible for me to "listen to his comments". He is not posting here.
2) Even if he was sitting on my couch, his comments refer to what he would do in his jurisdiction. What is under discussion is what the Obion County law enforcement system might do.
3) I freely admitted that I have no idea what the Obion County law enforcement system might do. I do know that the legal definition states that offering a bribe is illegal, and the conditions that make the offer a bribe. So far, no one has been able to dispute that what happened at the scene met the legal definition of bribery.
What I toss aside are arguments that are made on demonstrably inaccurate assumptions. There have been a lot of those kind of arguments made in this debate as if they were factual. Look around for Art, FETC, Jack/dt, John Crabbe, and others who have spent a lot of time correcting folks who posted emotional rants based on their demonstrable lack of factual information.
Hint: Logical Fallacies, by definition, are both illogical and fallacious. Yet, you want me to accept those points of view as if they are accurate, especially when personal attacks are involved.
I don't just tell others that I disagree, I tell them WHY I disagree.
It's laughable that I get accused of being narrow-minded or having a big ego by the same people that insist that the only "MORAL" way for South Fulton to have handled that incident was to extinguish the fire.
If you want to show me that my point is wrong, don't make allegations, PROVE IT. Use logical, honest debate tactics. Use demonstrable facts. Avoid personal attacks, namecalling, generalizations, and stereotypes. Show evidence.
I'll give you this - at least you tried. I've seen a total of two links from your. One was Harry Carter's opinon. I gave you may analysis of that opinion, why I disagree with most of it, and the fact that I almost never disagree with him.
Your second link was to the IAFF statement, which Art and others had already pointed out wasn't pertinent before I commented about it. (South Fulton is a volly department and the IAFF statement referred to "career" firefighters, for starters.)
The way to get me to stop using the word "fallacy" is to stop using the logical fallacies in a debate.
-
-
It doesn't matter why the county comissioners don't want higher taxes.
The citizens have demonstrated - over and dover again - that THEY don't want higher property taxes.
The commisioners are doing exactly what the citizens elected them to do.
-
-
-
-
Herb, LOOK UP AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE!!!
It clearly states that the Cranic's offered.
That doesn't mean that the neighbors didn't also make an offer.
The issue is whether or nor the Cranics made an offer.
According to THIS POST, they clearly did.
Whether or not the neighbors also made an offer isn't pertinent to whether or not the Cranics did.
Not only can you make it up, Herb, you just did.
-
-
Billy,
How was I proved wrong? I asked a question about bribery and said that what occurred seems to fit that definintion. I haven't heard anyone offer PROOF that the answer to my question is "no, it's not bribery".
When you cite "My uncle is an attorney", you are using that same Appeal to Authority logical fallacy that Fireslayer just used above. That's not proof. In fact, how do I know that you even have an uncle, or that he is an attorney? Thanks for using it so closely after Fireslayer, though. I still had the link up in another window, so pasting it in here just took a second.
As for the difficulty in funding fire services, you're not telling me anything that I didn't already know.
When you claim that everyone "was wrong", that's just your opinion. Why were they wrong?
According to their existing laws and policies, they did everything right.
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
