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Tennessee Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Subscription Issue
JASON HIBBS
WPSD
Reprinted with Permission
OBION COUNTY, Tenn. - Imagine your home catches fire but the local fire department won't respond, then watches it burn. That's exactly what happened to a local family tonight.
Related
- WPSD: Firefighters Watch as Home Burns to the Ground
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- USAToday: Firefighters watch house burn because owner hadn't paid $...
- MSNBC: No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn
FireEMSBlogs.com Updates
A local neighborhood is furious after firefighters watched as an Obion County, Tennessee, home burned to the ground.
The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn't do anything to stop his house from burning.
Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay.
The mayor said if homeowners don't pay, they're out of luck.
This fire went on for hours because garden hoses just wouldn't put it out. It wasn't until that fire spread to a neighbor's property, that anyone would respond.
Turns out, the neighbor had paid the fee.
"I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong," said Gene Cranick.
Because of that, not much is left of Cranick's house.
They called 911 several times, and initially the South Fulton Fire Department would not come.
The Cranicks told 9-1-1 they would pay firefighters, whatever the cost, to stop the fire before it spread to their house.
"When I called I told them that. My grandson had already called there and he thought that when I got here I could get something done, I couldn't," Paulette Cranick.
It was only when a neighbor's field caught fire, a neighbor who had paid the county fire service fee, that the department responded. Gene Cranick asked the fire chief to make an exception and save his home, the chief wouldn't.
We asked him why.
He wouldn't talk to us and called police to have us escorted off the property. Police never came but firefighters quickly left the scene. Meanwhile, the Cranick home continued to burn.
We asked the mayor of South Fulton if the chief could have made an exception.
"Anybody that's not in the city of South Fulton, it's a service we offer, either they accept it or they don't," Mayor David Crocker said.
Friends and neighbors said it's a cruel and dangerous city policy but the Cranicks don't blame the firefighters themselves. They blame the people in charge.
"They're doing their job," Paulette Cranick said of the firefighters. "They're doing what they are told to do. It's not their fault."
To give you an idea of just how intense the feelings got in this situation, soon after the fire department returned to the station, the Obion County Sheriff's Department said someone went there and assaulted one of the firefighters.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Herb Genelly III on
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Mr. Semantic....err...Ben,
You have a measure of self importance of yourself few have ever witnessed. You are so full of BS if you think this thread means anything to the fine folks of Olbion. Prove to me that they are benefiting from this in any way, shape or form. Prove it Ben. Where are your FACTS?
Your so full of contradictions , it's silly.
How's this for help Benny....
I would have put out the fire. LOL
The fact the home burned down was what changed the Cranic families lives. The thread came after, having no affect whatsoever on the Cranics.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Herb,
There's this concept called "context". Please learn it.
Your are arguing against something that I didn't say.
In other words, you're not discussing things in the same context in which my statment was made.
That makes your reply - factually - a Non Sequitur logical fallacy.
I guess your use of logical fallacies must be an unbreakable habit for you.
The facts show now evidence otherwise.
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Oh, and Herb, it would have been the last time you extinguished a fire, because you would have been fired for insubordination.
That's not Laughing Out Loud funny, and the LOL attachment is pretty warped.
Now lets talk that MORAL that you shouted so much earlier in this debate.
Is it MORAL for you to disobey orders and extinguish the fire while knowing that you'll be fired for insubordination, and thereby deprive the community of your experience, skills, and training?
In other words, do you understand the concept of the "Common Good"?
That goes back to the triage comparison that was discussed earlier. Triage is a concept that seeks the greatest good for the greatest number of people.
So does South Fulton's current subscription policy for property owners outside their city limits, including not fighting non-subscriber fires.
That system has worked VERY well for the common good for the citizens of Obion County. We're talking about 1 citizen who lost his home for policy non-compliance on top of his careless lack of control of an intentionally-set outside fire.
The rest of the citizens of Obion County served by South Fulton subscriptions aren't in the news.
Your solution is a feel-good solution for one fire. It is counterproductive and unsustainable in the long run. South Fulton's policy has provided fire services to their unincorporated suburbs for well over two decades. That is a VERY successful track record of South Fulton taking care of the common good, even outside the city limits where they would be justified in not responding at all.
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Ben,
Now you've lost it. Asserting that I'm important enough to have any impact to change the policy in Olbion is flattering, but untrue. I'm not trying to FORCE anything on Olbion. I can't FORCE anything on Olbion. This thread can't FORCE anything on ANYONE.
It just dawned on me that you must still be in your 20's and/or unmarried, because no person older/responisble could feel as though what they say matters so much to anyone on the internet.
Ben, this isn't real life. This is folks with the common interest in Fire/EMS talking about a broad range of subjects, that, on this particular thread, result in nothing more than harmless banter. True, some threads provide a wonderful amount of information that can help organizations do their job better/safer/more effectively. But................
To assert I have any desire to FORCE anything, other than my OPINION, is really childish Ben. I don't care what happens in Olbion, because I don't live there. I wish they could put out all the fires....but they can't.
You at least make the boring parts of the ballgame I'm watching bearable right now, by providing entertainment to the followers of this thread. I know you have your hands full yelling at a few others on different subjects here, but I for one enjoy your willingness to make me much more important than I really am. And that I can affect you so deeply on means that you care about me.................LOL
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More fallacies there, Herb.
"But I opinionated on a blog that I would have done the same thing, and you react like you are the ONLY living being that can decide what I say???"
First, you did NOT simply act as if you would have done the same thing.
You said that extinguishment is the only "MORAL" thing to do in that situation. That's a value judgement.
Second, nowhere did I say or imply that I am "the ONLY living being" that can decide what you say. I just gave my opinion, and I did it without making anything up that was a more extreme but similar-sounding statement to something you said, and then passing it off as if you had said it. I try to avoid Straw Man arguments. You used one in your reply above.
That's why I cut and paste your comments and put them in quotation marks. I did the same for the Union City fire chief's comments.
There's another logical fallacy that you have used - repeatedly - that I haven't brought up until now. That is the False Dilemma.
When you claim that extinguishing the fire is the only "MORAL" thing to do, that is setting up a false moral dilemma. In fact, it is more "MORAL" to let the non-subscriber's house burn, because doing otherwise is unfair to the other 29,999 Obion County residents.
Morality doesn't just exist in one homeowner's yard. It is a global concept. You need to have the big picture to understand the global situation. You didn't have the big picture when you made those "MORAL" shouts, and you got angry and responded with ad hominem attacks and fallacious attempts at logic. That doesn't provide strong evidence that you ever really understood what was "MORAL" in the situation under discussion.
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Moral, like Rosa Parks sitting in the front of the Bus Moral? Or just your version Ben? And excuse me for expressing my view that's like the Chief of Union city for expressing that we would have put out the fire so we could all Feel Good?
Deprive the community of my skills, experience, training. I did that when I RETIRED Ben...................LMAO. Will you go to no extreme to try to substantiate your immaturity?
And what do you know of Fultons record? Nothing. Stick with what you know been. Trying to rid the world of evil doers like me............LOL
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Herb, you really are addicted to logical fallacies, aren't you.
The MORAL in the Rosa Parks case was a human right, not a property right. No human rights were involved in the Cranic's fire, so that's a bogus comparison.
Your opinion of what the Union City chief said isn't the same thing as what he actually said. You omitted most of his important comments including the fact that South Fulton's system has ensured fire protection in unincorporated areas that would otherwise have had none for over 20 years. That's cherry picking. The link I posted had his entire statement. You cherry picked one point, put it out of context, then keep pounding that as if it were pertinent. It is not, for reasons previously given to you - repeatedly.
There's a big difference between depriving the community of your skills, experience, and training by retirement and through insubordination. One is planned and expected. The other is a reckless disregard for policy and the chain of command. You apparently don't understand that difference, but I do.
"Will you go to no extreme to try to substantiate your immaturity?"
That's incoherent babble. However, since you've accused me of immaturity, prove it. Show me some evidence. Otherwise, you're just talking out your backside, as usual. And Herb, that's an Ad Hominem logical fallacy because it's a personal attack, it's also a Red Herring logical fallacy because it's intended to divert attention from the topic, and it's a Non Sequitur logical fallacy because it doesn't pertain to the topic.
You almost hit for the cycle on that one, Herb. Three logical fallacies in one sentence? That's a new record, even for you.
And what do I know of South Fulton's record? More than you think, apparently. Did you miss the point that I spent 16 years of my career in Tennessee? I didn't work in Obion County, but I'm very familiar with the local situation. I used to volunteer for another Tennessee department that had an almost-identical situation. When I joined that department, they had a recent track record of letting non-subscriber property burn.
I didn't think that was the best option, but it certainly wasn't immoral of me to follow orders.
Through time and internal efforts, the firefighters (not the community, the firefighters) got the policy changed to include a massive suppression fee after we extinguishes non-subscriber fires. The fire insurance companies didn't like it, but they paid it. It didn't involve the need to tax the citizens additionally, it improved our department revenue, and we eliminated a decision from our firefighting efforts. But Herb, when you think I don't know about South Fulton's situation, you're quite mistaken.
"Stick with what you know, been" (sic) That's exactly what I've been doing, Herb.
"Trying to rid the worl of evil doers like me." That's a lie, Herb. I'm not trying to rid the world of anyone. I'm specifically not trying to rid the world of you. Why in the world would you say something so slanderous in a public forum.
Herb, I've refrained from personal attacks on you, because it's the MORAL thing to do. You apparently don't meet your own standards on that one, unless you now are going to tell me that an easy-to-disprove falsehood is somehow "MORAL".
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Ben,
When you argue in front of people, face to face, to you actually accuse them of the Straw Man Fallicy crap to their face? Ben, then you think I'm angry, when all along I've told you I'm not invested in what you think, say or feel? You try to avoid Straw Man arguments....but use it to bolster your OPINION every single chance you can? Ben, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.
You continuue to think more of yourself and me, as it applies to the Olbion, than what really is the case. And how you got from talking about a house fire to The Global Welfare of the world is bizarre. You
really are trying to save the world Ben. Good for you!
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BTW Ben,
When I was the Acting Chief of my department in 1999, I sent out my first due crew to a house fire in a neighboring district, because the volunteer agency didn't have a crew. This was against our district policy. We got on scene an
affected a rescue of occupants and the pet dog. What press did you think our department receive? The district changed the policy after that event, allowing the chiefs discretion as to send a unit or not under those conditions.
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Permalink Reply by George on
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Most all of the dispatch protocol in this area is some one in the house nearest fire department.
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Nah, you're just the oldest and trademarked it before the rest of us were born! :-)
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You didn't work in South Fulton, so trying to make any comparison is FACT-LESS Had I used that example......well we all know what you'd have done Ben...LOL
I didn't Cherry Pick, I quoted him (the Chief) directly as saying he would have put out the fire. Your claim is FACT-LESS Rights are Rights....Human, Property, Work, so your claim is FACT-LESS
In fact Ben, what does the Constitution say about PROPERTY RIGHTS?
And I pegged you on your maturity, your upset......I get that.
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