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Why the TN home allowed to burn to the ground was an embarrassment to the Fire Service.
A lot has been said about the events that unfolded regarding a home that was allowed to burn to the ground in TN. One of the main arguments (in fact, the only valid argument) criticizing the homeowner was that he didn't pay the $75 Fee required by the fire department prior to the fire, as the response was outside of the regular district boundary required payment. Folks living outside of the boundary don't pay taxes that support the fire department, so a fee was implemented to offset the response. They all knew it too. OK Let's take a look at that...............
First....How does $75 dollars pay for an engine crew, let alone multiple crews to respond to a fire? Ans: It doesn't. But since they can't levy the true costs of a single response on to a homeowner (did you know that trying to charge for suppression efforts AFTER the incident is next to impossible based on the law?), they have to utilize a reasonable fee structure that requires some "skin" in the game, yet collectively, it covers expenses associated with fire suppression.
This is a basic insurance method of covering costs, in that, $75 won't pay for a response, but if 100 homeowners pay, and say there's only 2 fire calls per year in the area, the department receives $7500 for the two calls. (The 2 calls is just an example, for all you fact freaks, since I don't know how many times this particular FD responded out of district, nor do I know how many have paid the fee)
The way car insurance works (in case you forgot) is that if you wreck your car, and don't have insurance, you have to pay your own expenses. Sounds good so far? And you can't pay AFTER the fact to get coverage...YEAH. In fact, in some states, it's ILLEGAL to NOT have CAR insurance to protect other drivers... (stay with me here).................but if that uninsured car is on fire in the middle of the road, outside or inside the district boundary........the FD puts it out....right?
Now, if someone is in the car...well, that makes all the sense in the world. But if I didn't pay my fire taxes (say I live out of state and I'm sightseeing in beautiful TN), nor did I pay my car insurance (yeah...I'm a risk taker), but the car is on fire, they put it out...pat each other on the back, and then go have a cold one at the local watering hole and talk about the look on the guys face when his house burned to the ground.
But wait.....If my car's leaking gas as a result of an accident................here comes Haz Mat. Maybe I had some chemicals in the trunk (yeah...I moon light for a company trying to take over UPS's business..LOL), and it creates a cloud of methyl-ethyl bad stuff, and traffic has to be shut down, an area evacuated, detection gear, decontamination, the works... (that dang MSDS wasn't handy, and the bump on my head made my memory of what chemicals I had fuzzy), and you've got yourself a real honest to goodness S%#T-fest on your hands. How much does that cost tax payers? (I'm sure the FACTS Geeks will have a reasonable answer for this one).
So, let me get this straight...........you can cause one heck of an incident, costing tax payers a boat-load of money, shutting down a road, endangering residents, if it involves your car. But if your house catches on fire, spewing embers, causing spot fires, igniting stuff on fire that has to be extinguished, the "seat of the fire" is allowed to burn, with the potential to create more devastation, (and you've set a president by allowing a homeowner to pay a fee AFTER the fire was put out on prior incidents to prevent the aforementioned issues), but you say....naw....not this time.....you just let the home burn?
Now answer me this: If I was a neighbor, and I paid my $75, and I live a few houses away, how am I protected exactly? The unpaid homeowners home is going up in smoke, spewing a column of smoke and fire, and the engine crew arrives and breaks out the popcorn. The next thing I know, my wood shingle roof has gone..poof...and is on fire. They put the popcorn down, spray some water on my house. But dang... one of the embers got into the attic....and poof...their goes my house. Is there any MORAL responsibility on behalf of the department to have put the original fire out?
Of course, this particular department has allowed folks to pay AFTER THE FACT. It had something to to with not letting one structure fire turn into a whole neighborhood disaster (former fire chief's thinking at the time, but he's long gone). But can you honestly tell me, if that house on fire was surrounded by homes on three sides, that it wouldn't have been tactically prudent to put out the main fire if it was a eminent threat to the paid subscribers? So this poor guy's home burns down because they could AFFORD to let it burn based on geography?
So let me get this straight; You can pay the fee before the home burns and get protection. You can buy it after the home burns to the ground and get protection (rekindle anyone). But for the time it's on fire........NO DEAL?
Well boys and girls, there's the LETTER of the law, and the SPIRIT of the law. There's MORALITY, COMPASSION, ETHICS and PROFESSIONALISM. Regardless if the fee was paid was one second prior, or one second after the fire, it should have been extinguished, because its a THREAT to the paying customers (But not in this case...right FACT Geeks?)It's an area they had to respond to protect other homes. Put out the first fire to prevent anything else form happening. If you can come close to a moral argument as to why I'm wrong, well....I'm sure you'll tell me. A sad day indeed.
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ed Cate on
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Ben is correct in Knox Co. Rural/Metro is a for profitt department with 2 personnel per truck and 16 stations that cover most of Knox Co. But there are 3 Volunteer departments in Knox Co. 1 of them The Karns VFD is getting ready to go subscription due to lack of donations in the Karns area. They have paid staff and 3 stations. They can not keep up with the cost 0f running the calls paying for fuel and ect. One of the other VFD's in the county is looking at closing it's doors due to no funding from the county or the people. What happened at SFFD was unfortunate but some of are doing is comparing apples to oranges what works in one state, city or county does not work in others as show in Knox Co. Like Ben stated it is the 3 largest in TN and still doe not have a paid municiple department and may never will.
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Permalink Reply by Anthony Meares on
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As a volunteer fire fighter for the past 18 yrs, it disturbs me to know that a fire dept. let a families home burn. But it is even worse that another fire fighter is condoning this action. The fire service is not a magazine or something you should have to subscribe to. And if you are a true fire fighter at heart you would know this. Let me leave you with this question, When the brave fire fighters of New York City when into those towers to do there duty, do you think they stop and asked if the people inside paid a fee?
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Not a good analogy Anthony, there were no lives at risk in this fire. Of course have an opinion about what happened, but please also understand the facts behind the actions taken. And there is no need to insult the opinions of others who may have a better understanding of the whole situation.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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No, you trampled on logic, and it's going to be pointed out to you around here.
The owner has changed his story more than once. His story isn't reliable, including when he changed it from "I intentionally didn't buy a subscription" to "I forgot".
BTW, your entire last paragraph above is a Straw Man logical fallacy.
Those rule are not "my" rules as you allege above, and nothing I have said has burned anything down. When you pretend that both of those are the case, you're not making a claim that is either logical or honest.
Those rules are the City of South Fulton's rules, and the homeowner's own cheapskatedness and his grandkids' lack of supervision burned his house down.
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The fire chief did not "decide to go through a media storm".
Herb, you really need to stop just making it up as you go along.
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Herb, are you really that ignorant of the classic logical fallacies used by people who can't debate logically?
Logical fallacies are the refuge of people that either can't or won't debate honestly, based on the facts.
Somehow, I'm not surprised that you don't seem to know about the rules of logic, since you've demonstrated several appalling violations of those rules in this debate.
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Permalink Reply by Herb Genelly III on
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So in your mind...........the punishment fit the crime? The crime being not paying the $75 bill.
What would you do to a Jaywalker dude? Cut off his legs? And your opinion regarding my position is simply to create the illusion of having refuted my proposition by substituting a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition and refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
My position has, and alway will be that it was Morally wrong, and the policy is bad..PERIOD.
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Thanks, Ed.
A lot of folks don't realize that their demands that Obion County (or Knox County, for that matter) don't have a choice between a completely tax-supported department and a subscription department.
Those folks real choice is between the subscription and NO fire protection.
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If that option was acceptable in Obion County, don't you think the South Fulton department would already be using it, Patti?
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Herb, what you are insisting should have taken place is immoral and unfair.
You insist that someone who didn't follow the rules get unfair priority treatment over his neighbors that DID follow the rules. It would be unethical for the fire department to provide free services outside their jurisdiction for one homeowner while charging his neighbors the fee for the same service.
Why do you continue to insist that the fire department should engage in an unethical and unfair practice just because you don't like the outcome?
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Albertson on
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Okay folks, I have yet to chime in on this topic but with all the fighting going on in this thread I will chunk this out there:
Imagine the following scenario:
You are working on your house. You have recently been laid off, have no money, and the air medical helicopter subscription you had ran out two months ago. You have not been able to scrape up the extra $45 a year to pay for it beacuse you have been paying the "minor" expenses (such as groceries and utilities) with what little money you have had. You are on a 20 foot ladder cleaning your gutters when you lose your balance and fall. IN the fall, you hit your head and are showing signs of a closed head injury. Your spouse calls 911 and lo and behold, an ambulance shows up to help you. Nearest trauma center, matter of fact nearest hospital at all is 55 minutes away by ground running Code 3.
During his assessment, the medic determines that you meet trauma destination guidelines for air medical and requests a chopper. The chopper launches and is on its way. Do you think that the chopper crew is going to turn back and head for base because you were unable to pay your subscription fee? Nope. They are going to transport you to the hospital. You're going to get a pretty large bill for services now, but they are not going to turn you away because of you not paying the fee.
How do I know this? I was the aforementioned patient.
SO I ask you this: what is the difference here? I see people posting that it is hard to bill for the services we do, but I completely and whole heartedly disagree with that statement. There are several fire departments in Tennessee that have subscriptions, but this is the first department I have heard of refusing to fight a fire over a subsription fee. BILL the person by all means, but do not refuse to help. It can be done, and has been done successfully. If necessary, SUE the individual to collect.
This reminds me of the following quote, which sums this entire thread up very well:
“Of course we must fear evil men, but there is another evil that we must fear more… and that is the indifference of good men.” -Source Unknown
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Your hypothetical misses the main point here - the homeowner had the means to pay the subscription fee. He simply chose to not pay it.
Your story, while unfortunate, has nothing to do with the fire protection in Obion County nor is it pertinent to the discussion.
The indifference here was on the part of the homeowner, not the City of South Fulton or it's fire department.
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