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South Carolina Department Charged Over 2-In, 2-Out Violation
WCSC
Reprinted with Permission
NORTH CHARLESTON, SC (WCSC) - Officials with the North Charleston Fire Department said they are committed to safety in the face of recent citations issued by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration stemming from a July 5 fire.
Related
SCOnFire Coverage:
In that fire three North Charleston firefighters sustained burns battling a house fire on Purity Drive near Rivers Avenue.
This month, the city and fire department received two citations from OSHA stemming from the house fire. Both citations claim the department put their men in a dangerous situation.
A statement released by OSHA said, "The employer knew or should have known that on or about July 5, 2010, firefighters performing interior structural firefighting were exposed to the hazard of being trapped in a burning residential building."
OSHA contends there were three rules that were not followed while trying to extinguish the fire.
The department must have at least two people in contact with each other at all times while inside a burning structure, two firefighters must be outside the structure at all times and everybody must be wearing a self-containing breathing apparatus.
Copyright 2010 WCSC. All rights reserved.
Reprinted with Permission
NORTH CHARLESTON, SC (WCSC) - Officials with the North Charleston Fire Department said they are committed to safety in the face of recent citations issued by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration stemming from a July 5 fire.
Related
- Firefighter released from burn unit after North Charleston fire
- North Charleston Fire Department, City slapped with citation
- Fire department cited for safety violations
- Citation and Notification of Penalty
SCOnFire Coverage:
In that fire three North Charleston firefighters sustained burns battling a house fire on Purity Drive near Rivers Avenue.
This month, the city and fire department received two citations from OSHA stemming from the house fire. Both citations claim the department put their men in a dangerous situation.
A statement released by OSHA said, "The employer knew or should have known that on or about July 5, 2010, firefighters performing interior structural firefighting were exposed to the hazard of being trapped in a burning residential building."
OSHA contends there were three rules that were not followed while trying to extinguish the fire.
The department must have at least two people in contact with each other at all times while inside a burning structure, two firefighters must be outside the structure at all times and everybody must be wearing a self-containing breathing apparatus.
Copyright 2010 WCSC. All rights reserved.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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It sounds as if this structure was so well involved that there was no chance of a rescue, regardless.
This isn't a great example of a savable life in a vacant structure.
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That's not always the case. If the fire is incipient and the backup isn't nearby, it can be safer to just go in and extinguish the fire.
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capcity, when you say "Just because there aren't any people inside is no reason to call the whole place a loss and go home." you are creating a false dilemma. That's a classic logical fallacy.
False Dilemma Definition:
"A limited number of options (usually two) is given, while in reality there are more options. A false dilemma is an illegitimate use of the "or" operator. "
There are many other options between interior attacks on every fire and calling it a loss and leaving. One such possibility is a transitional attack. Another is to conduct a survivability profile for victims, and if it comes up negative, fight the fire defensively. Still another is to survey the survivability profile for firefighters, and if it comes up negative, fight the fire defensively.
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No, Heather, it's 100% accurate.
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"And it is arrogant to say that rules are established just for financial staffing issues."
I have to call "Child, Please" on that one. It's not arrogant, it's just someone else's opinion. I happen to disagree with that opinion, but it was not expressed in an arrogant way. In fact, it was expressed in a very tactful way.
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Actually, in SC, if you have an IC and a pump operator on the outside and 2 firefighters on the line inside, then it meets the 2 in, 2 out standard as written here.
Since we're talking about a SC department, that's an important distinction.
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John, the only way you're going to find a victim while advancing a hoseline on the interior is if you literally trip over him, unless you're carrying a TIC. That isn't much of a search.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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John, the only way you're going to find a victim while advancing a hoseline on the interior is if you literally trip over him, unless you're carrying a TIC. That isn't much of a search.
Yeah, not arguing against it, just stating it is possible to do so. I'm not saying it is ideal, I disagree with the mentality of using a line to search, but it is possible. That is also why I mentioned that you can't do both, fire attack and search simultaneously, one operation will take precedence. If you find a victim, you remove them, thus rescue mode. If you find the fire, you attack it, mitigating the primary problem and thus enabling another company to search.
Besides here, we do carry TICs on all trucks and pumps, so every company should have a TIC available for whatever task they are assigned.
The whole reasoning for mentioning this is your comparison of DC and North Charleston, seeminly implying DC will have greater resources right away vs a dept a bit spread out. Not knowing how either operate, I interjected the issues similarly encountered here as to North Charleston. Chances are quite likely that in the event of a fire, second due companies are typically arriving in enough time to adequately do several tasks together.
Just saying in the rare occurance where search or fire attack would have to take place, it IS possible to search with a handline. Not ideal, definately limited, but if in rescue mode and you are going in with a line to search and you find the victim, good. If you find the fire, putting it out can enhance the chances of survival and keeps the fire in check for other companies to take over search. Either way it comes down to the judgement call of the officer and conditions encountered.
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Not everyone has TICs on every rig - some don't have a TIC at all.
North Chuck has TICs, but I don't know if every rig has one.
It's not entirely clear what occurred, but it's entirely possible that the situation went bad before any other companies arrived. North Chuck runs a lot of EMS first response, so it's possible that even if the first-due was in quarters, the second due was on another call. That adds even more delay to the backup's arrival, it puts more pressure on the 1st-due crew, and it may explain why the situation occurred the way it did.
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It's not entirely clear what occurred, but it's entirely possible that the situation went bad before any other companies arrived. North Chuck runs a lot of EMS first response, so it's possible that even if the first-due was in quarters, the second due was on another call. That adds even more delay to the backup's arrival
It is possible situation was bad prior to arrival. I'm not concerning myself with the issues involved for the dept, just that this dept sounds like they operate quite similar to us, so chances are the wait times for second due is going to be relatively short, even with distance involved and if other companies are out. Just in the rare case a company (engine/quint specifically) is alone for some time, it is possible to pull a line and do a search. No where near ideal, just possible.
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That's entirely speculative.
I've done training classes with North Chuck and their neighbors and been listening to their dispatch channel when they had 7 or 8 companies out on fire alarms and EMS calls at the same time.
It's not safe to assume that they had lots of backup at the fire quickly, especially given the way the citations were written.
It doesn't even say if the company involved was in their own 1st due or not.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on
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Actually, in SC, if you have an IC and a pump operator on the outside and 2 firefighters on the line inside, then it meets the 2 in, 2 out standard as written here.
Since we're talking about a SC department, that's an important distinction.
I was under the impression that this was OK under OSHA regs in any state. As long as they're both packed up and ready to go.
Anybody else know different?
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