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Out of Zone Response
I was reading the thread about scanners and a reply saying that the person would never respond to someone else's call. Scenarios started coming to mind and I was wondering what others have to say about this.
For example: You are driving down the road and you have your mobile scanner with you and you catch a call for something like 60 yr old with chest pains and you just happen to be driving through that particular neighborhood at the time. I know that if I actually witness someone in trouble, I will help however I can, but to respond to a location out of your district...I dunno. What about if it's a fire that you are driving by and see that there MIGHT be a shortage or people. Do you stop and see if they need extra help? Would this be concidered "freelancing"? Or would you wait for a MA call?
I suppose this question will be geared more toward volly dept's, but I would like to hear voices from different angles.
I should say that I do not own a scanner, and the pager is set to our own districts calls. This is just a question that came to mind, and I couldn't come up with an informative response to myself.
Thanks in advance
KSHF
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Michael,
Being a licensed ham operator is not a license to respond to other people's calls or to disasters without being dispatched to the scene in a legal way and in an official capacity.
If you're not part of the local community emergency management response or a member of the Red Cross, then where the shelter points are set up are none of your business - unless you need to shelter there.
You don't need a scanner to perform your duties as a ham operator in a disaster if you're part of an official emergency management or fire department ham operator gropup. We have such a group. They don't use scanners for their duties. Instead, they use their ham radios so that they can provide two-way communication if the primary and backup emergency radio systems go dead.
If that occurs, the ham radio operators report to a central collection point where they are credentialled. They are then assigned to a specific shelter, fire station, or other key facility. They go to the one place they are dispatched and set up as the communications link, and they stay there until they are relieved.
They don't need scanners, they don't respond to places where they're not dispatched, and they only do what they are assigned to do by the EOC ESF that manages the Communications function.
Possessing a ham license doesn't give you any special rights where scanners are concerned. Anyone can legally possess a scanner - they're one-way receivers. Stating that you can have a scanner due to a ham license is like stating that you can have an AM/FM radio in your car because you have a ham radio license.
You can have a scanner if you have $50 to give to Radio Shack or Galls.
None of the above gives you the right to self dispatch anywhere, ever.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Hulsey on
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The best thing to do is not respond to an incident that your department is not toned out to. You are guilty of freelancing and opening all kinds of legal problems and opportunities to both you, your department and the responsible department. I will not respond in my area unless asked. If I drive up on something and I can make a difference in a life safety situation, without putting myself in danger I will do so, otherwise I do not get involved. In our department if anyone responds on a unasked for response they are told to leave, if they don't the PD escorts them away from the scene
MH
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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Exactly how I feel Chief. Like you, I do not have, or intend to have a scanner. Our volly dept. issues pagers that do all I need it to do, which is inform me of an emergency in our area of coverage. Anything apart form that is, well really, none of my business unless it's a mutual aid request.
I would like to hear from those that DO listen to scanners and respond. The reactions they are met with when responders from that area arrive. I realise that some communities have excellent relations with neighboring dept's. but some don't. So, if you do respond via scanner, or think it's ok, AND are brave enough, send a reply.
KSHF.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Meadows on
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Ben, perhaps you didn't read my earlier post. I don't self dispatch unless I roll up on a wreck and no units are there or I witness the wreck. PERIOD. In the state of Kentucky, it is illegal to possess a scanner unless you are part of the Police or Fire dept. or licensed by the FCC. Look it up it's KRS 432.570 here in Kentucky. And in most disasters Ham clubs can and are contacted by the FCC or the Red Cross or other orginizations and respond anywhere to emergencies. Some fly in with their equipment and some drive in. Either way scanners are a good way to get info before you get to the scene of whatever emergency you are getting ready to work from. Check the ARRL (Amatuer Radio Relay League) for more information on what we do during natural disasters. Most people who become hams do it to help people and provide commucations during disasters. And I also said earlier that I'm not special just because I'm licensed. We do good things Ben. And in answer to your statement that I shouldn't "self-dispatch" from my scanner, I don't. Wouldn't dream of getting in someone's way going "let me, let me!!!" Done said it in another post earlier in this thread. Maybe I just need to make myself somewhat clearer.
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Permalink Reply by Gary Hammer on
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There is another issue here, and that's liability. Most rescue units are under some form of licensing, and are under a city, county or township charter/authority. To take it upon yourself to respond, you are probably going to take on the full liability. Not sure if your personal insurance would take kindly to that risk level.
I think the best idea has already been stated. If you are in the area, contact dispatch, inform them of your training level and location, and ask if they need a hand.
As a former chief, I'm not sure I would want that kind of unknown on my scene. With that in mind, if it's life and death, and seconds matter, than by all means have at it!
We used to have mutual aid agreements with 5 adjoining departments. We trained together and responded together on mutual aid runs, so if someone from another department was close, they would just call us on our own freqs and ask if we needed help. Knowing who they were made a huge difference.
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Something else I forgot to mention we also use scanners to monitor other frequencies while we are on our own frequency. That way we are kept abreast of what's going on elsewhere and we can have a "heads-up" in case things go south somewhere and they are on a different frequency than the one we are assigned to. But let me say again and I want to be clear on this point, I would never, ever respond to a call just because i was close. If I come up on a crash and there are no rescuers there or if I witness a crash I would stop. But I would get out of the way as soon as responders got there. Also scanners are regulated and can be illegal to own in many states unless you have a reason to have them such as fire, police, or FCC licensed persons. I know this to be the case as stated in the KRS above. Not trying to be harsh or anything Ben but I do think your lecture to me was a little over the top.
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Michael,
Apparently you read something that I didn't post. I didn't accuse you of personally responding to calls using the scanner. However, there are lots of people who read these posts who might not follow your rules or who don't live in Kentucky. Your advice might not be accurate for them.
There is also a serious question about the legality of state or local laws that prohibit scanners. Federal law specifies that the scanner spectrum is legal for everyone to receive (not transmit on, just receive) and it's difficult for me to see how a state could make something illegal if federal law specifies that is legal.
I'm not advising anyone to break state law, mind, just commenting that if a state law is in conflict with federal law, the federal law generally wins.
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Michael, I'm quite familiar with the ARRL - they are part of our emergency management communications ESF.
Several of the fire departments in my area have our own fully-licensed ham radio operators as well.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Ok... I admit to being a once upon a time scanner maggot, but I had a great excuse Derek. My wife was a 911 dispatcher. So when she was off duty and I was on duty, she would listen to my on a scanner in the kitchen. There was only one instance when we were both off duty and she monitored a MVA that had responding units over 30 minutes away. Yup, I drove to the fire station and met up with one other guy, responded and rendered ACLS until the 1st in engine and medics arrived. I ended up riding the the hospital with the patient and unfortunately had her die in my care enroute. Life is not always fair but I tried my best... Regardless, I responded off the scanner from home. That's my story and I'm sticking too it...
CBz
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Ok well forgive me for going off on a tangent I must have took your post the wrong way. I am honestly sorry if I misunderstood what you said or took it wrong. Still friends?
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Permalink Reply by Marc on
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I was an Explorer with the Los Angeles City Fire Department for 3 years. And being in and around the city of Los Angeles, there is always a lot going on. I had several Expirences where I assisted either a neighboring department or my own department while not riding out.
I go to Beverly Hills High School, so I am always driving in and out of Beverly Hills. This past summer, I was taking some summer school classes at my school. When the school let out, I walked over to my car and started out of the parking lot. I noticed a good sized loom up apporx. 6 blocks from my school. I started to adjust my scanner to the BHFD channels. I heard the call go out for a reported structure fire 8 blocks from my school. I had all of my fire department stuff (PPE's, Boots, Axe, ect) in the trunk of my car because i was planing on riding out the next day. As i drove towards the fire, I heard the size up of a 2 story single family with heavy smoke and fire showing. I got on scene just as the 1st and 2nd Engines were pulling lines, and the truck was coming down the street. I got out and rushed over to the captain. I told him i was an Explorer for LAFD and wondered if he needed any help. He told me to put on my PPE's and wait until the battlion chief showed up About 2 mintues later the BC shows up and he asks me if i want to work, i say yes, and he tells me to start helping to pull hose and traffic control until PD shows up (BHPD ussualy has a responce time of about 2 mintes...this time the doughnut shop held them up). I starting to help pulling hose and throwing ladders. Once, Pd showed up i helped with traffic and all of that stuff.
BHFD ended up calling my post and saying that i had greatly assisted them and blah blah blah. Point is, if you are going to respond out of district, Speak with a commanding officer before doing ANYTHING!!!!!!!!! thats my view on it
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No problem. The thing we should all remember here is that the rules are not the same everywhere. If you make a statement without explaining the underlying assumptions, that might not be a problem for you, but it might create a major problem for someone else who uses your assumptions somewhere else that goes by different rules or that has a different situation.
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