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Did people make too big a deal about this injured fire cadet explorer?
Glen Ellen fire chief defends actions of 16-year-old firefighter
By DEREK J. MOORE
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Wednesday, January 6, 2010 at 8:37 a.m.
Last Modified: Wednesday, January 6, 2010 at 8:37 a.m.
Glen Ellen's fire chief on Tuesday hotly refuted concerns that his department put the safety of a 16-year-old boy at risk during the battle to douse a raging New Year's Eve house fire. “I can tell you categorically that this appears to be overblown,” said Peter Van Fleet, who took over as chief in June 2008 and was a volunteer for the department for 25 years.
Van Fleet returned from vacation Tuesday to be greeted by a firestorm of controversy over the role the minor, identified as Japen Soto-Pomeroy, played during the response to the blaze, which tore through an unoccupied vacation home on Trinity Road east of Glen Ellen.
Sonoma County fire officials, who had jurisdiction over the fire scene, raised concerns about the teen's work after he and a Glen Ellen firefighter were taken to Sonoma Valley Hospital to be treated for heat exhaustion. Van Fleet returned from vacation Tuesday to be greeted by a firestorm of controversy over the role the minor, identified as Japen Soto-Pomeroy, played during the response to the blaze, which tore through an unoccupied vacation home on Trinity Road east of Glen Ellen.
Sonoma County fire officials, who had jurisdiction over the fire scene, raised concerns about the teen's work after he and a Glen Ellen firefighter were taken to Sonoma Valley Hospital to be treated for heat exhaustion.
But after speaking with his firefighters who were at the scene that day, Van Fleet said Tuesday that neither their actions nor that of the teen violated the department's policy for fire cadets, which the chief said he drafted last May.
The policy forbids cadets — defined as trainees 16 and over — from going inside a building where there is an uncontrolled fire. But they can go onto roofs to help with “ventilation, exposure protection and overhaul” so long as they are accompanied by two other adult firefighters. (full story...)
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Reg,
What you propose is a bit of a conundrum. If I can't fall back on what the law says, then I have to answer your question with yet another:
On what do you base your "standards" by which you have judged this 17 year old as having the "proper approach towards safety and adhering to command decisions"?
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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No, people not make "too big a deal about this injured fire cadet explorer."
Junior Firefighters/Explorers/Fire Cadets should not be used as labor on any emergency call. If a fire department really wants to allows minors to serve at emergency scenes, there are only three jobs I believe are suitable for Older Teens to perform: Traffic control at static road blocks on surface streets (never on a highway, and Jrs/Explorers/Cadets should NEVER respond to MVAs), assist in Rehab for Firefighters, and ground level Search and Rescue in the presence of adults (i.e. lost kid in the woods).
I respect Juniors/Explorers/Cadets, I was one when I was in H.S., but when it comes to Liability and Occupational Safety and Health, minors just cannot legally serve in Active Rescuer/Firefighting roles.
If you're not legal allowed to operate a Deli slicer or a Hobart mixer, then you cannot legally operate Chainsaws, K-12's, Pike Poles and you cannot be exposed to IDLH environments as part of your employment (legally including volunteering, since you're covered by OSHA and Worker's comp when you volunteer for an organization).
It is a sign of maturity to understand limitations such as these and the reason they exist, and prepare yourself for the day when you can legally operate as a Firefighter after you turn 18 (and graduate H.S. in many states).
respectfully,
Greenman
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Permalink Reply by Bud Schlessman on
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ok first off if we dont train our new and up coming fire fighters what happens when you go into a burning house with a jr ff that just turned 18 and he don't know what to do and he is the only one there to help then what you just say i cant go in there with him and let a family burn to death? when in most cases if that cadet was trained like a adult then you could of possibly saved that family. that would go over real well in the public eye as hey that dept. cant train their personal then why should we support them any more
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and if u want to get to the point if the 16 and 17 yr old being "children" then why does the government give them the ability to drive a car a 70 miles per hour and be ablie to kill several people and in the state of Missouri which is where i live a 17 yr old can if they so chose to move out of there parents house and become a adult
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Bud, that whole post makes no sense. There is no reason for a kid to have to learn the job as a minor to be an effective FF. That 18 y/o, while not a minor, should also be trained to the standards as set forth by the state before doing any work on the fireground. Only difference is that 18 y/o can legally make their own decisions and can legally be held for their own actions.
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So now driving a car is the same as allowing a kid on a fireground? Get real. So tell me then why is the insurance rate higher for a teen driver than a person in their 20's? Be able to kill several people? Like how, an accident? If you haven't taken the time to understand the impact such accidents have had on teens, fom states making graduated driver's license and establishing the number of kids able to ride with a new driver etc, then you have been out of the loop. There are reasons such laws and programs are in place, that still does not give a valid reason to have kids on a fireground...none.
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i totally agree on reg on this i come form a dept that is TOTALLY funded by DONATIONS and we do with what we got and with those donations we have the biggest fire protection area in the county and we run in most cases the 2nd or 3rd most runs in a year
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Bud,
Seriously, what makes you think that a "new" firefighter has to have been a junior? Why not take that 18 year old adult and teach him/her to be a firefighter? If you really think that only someone that has been a junior can be a firefighter you are at best, shortsighted. At worse, you have the potential to actually use a minor as a firefighter.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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DUMBASS......enough said....any questions where I am coming from...?
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Bud,
No one, whether they are 18, or not, goes into a structure fire until they are a certified Firefighter. No one under the age of 18 works as a Firefighter, interior or exterior; minors can help with non-firefighting duties such as establishing and working Rehab, changing air bottles, etc...
Once the young man or young woman turns 18, their department needs to send them to training, or conduct its own formal training, either FF1 or MOD1 including Live burn, BEFORE they work as an interior Firefighter.
Junior Firefighter (Fire Explorers) programs are NOT designed to replace FF1 or MOD1, nor are they sources of reserve manpower, they are educational programs designed to introduce a young person to the career field of Firefighting/EMS so that once they become adults by turning 18 (and in many states graduating High School), they can enter formal job training with a background knowledge of the field.
Think of it this way: If a High School Student went through four years of Junior ROTC, do they get to skip Basic Training and AIT when they enter the Army and go straight to Iraq? The answer is NO, because Jr. ROTC did not actually train them to be Soldiers and perform as Soldiers, it gave them a broad introduction to the Army lifestyle and Army principles, so they will better understand and apply their training when they go through it.
If anyone ever told you that Junior Firefighters were anything different, then they probably did not have a real understanding of how the program is supposed to work and did you a real disservice.
One last thing: attending weekly drills does not replace attending formal FF1 training whether you're an adult or not, so just because you turn 18 doesn't mean you automatically getting to work interior or roof ops.
Greenman
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Permalink Reply by Greg Gilman on
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this kid had no business being on the roof he is not old enough to be certified and god forbid if that roof would had collapsed wile he was on it that dept would have been screwed osha would have had a field day the only thing he should have been doing is handing out water and moving hose around outside in this case the chief dropped the ball big time the because its the chief who is responsible for the safety of EVERYONE on the fire scene you want to use this kid for ventilation operations the wait until hes 18 and certified and TRAINED PROPERLY
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I need to correct myself on my last comment...that was wrong to address a Chief in that manner....I should have said "DUMBASS Sir"......I stand corrected......
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