The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Charleston Firehouse Ordered to Remove Nativity Scene
CHARLESTON, S.C. - A fire department in South Carolina has removed a nativity display from a station after getting a complaint.
The Post and Courier of Charleston reported Monday that the nativity scene was removed from Charleston's Fire Station 12 after the complaint that the display supports Christianity.
The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter dated Dec. 17 to Mayor Joe Riley and Fire Chief Thomas Carr asking that the display be removed. The letter says a local resident complained.
The complaint was referred to the city's legal department, which recommended the scene be removed, citing U.S. Supreme Court rulings against promoting one religion over another.
A number of Charleston fire stations have Christmas decorations, but those include Santa Claus and holiday lights.
___
Information from: The Post and Courier, http://www.postandcourier.com
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
The Post and Courier of Charleston reported Monday that the nativity scene was removed from Charleston's Fire Station 12 after the complaint that the display supports Christianity.
The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter dated Dec. 17 to Mayor Joe Riley and Fire Chief Thomas Carr asking that the display be removed. The letter says a local resident complained.
The complaint was referred to the city's legal department, which recommended the scene be removed, citing U.S. Supreme Court rulings against promoting one religion over another.
A number of Charleston fire stations have Christmas decorations, but those include Santa Claus and holiday lights.
___
Information from: The Post and Courier, http://www.postandcourier.com
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
-
How is your faith being assaulted here? It isn't.....like my reply to Beverly you can practice your faith however you want. The difference is when you are projecting your beliefs onto others. If you want to pray before eating, go ahead, but you can't force the rest of the crew to do so if they don't want to.
Station 12, call the alliance defense fund and sue the city.
Just think about how absolutely stupid that sounds. The station is owned by the city, those who work there are city employees, they have to follow the orders of those above them, which is the city. Besides, who is to say everyone who is assigned to that station is always working there? Most places have firefighters who will work in other houses either on trade, OT, swung in to cover, whatever. Basically, there is no isolation of one house over another.
That is a direct assault on your first amendment rights and if those who chose to open their big mouth want a challenge, they can show up in court.
No it's not. As it is as an employee of the public sector one does not have the same freedom of speech ON-DUTY as one has while off duty. A city employee can not campaign for a candidate of their choosing on city property, they have to be neutral while on duty, it is the same thing when regarding religion.
-
Permalink Reply by Thomas Tallent on
-
To all:
I am a fireman with the Charleston Fire Department, and a member of station 12. This is my third Christmas at this station. This problem has been going on for aproximently three years. We thank you for your support in this matter. It is hurtful but on the positive side I'm proud to be saved. This was not meant to push anything on anyone. The only thing this was there for was to remind us all who beleive the real reason why Christmas if celebrated. We were so outraged that we took all of the declorations down. If the recreation of this historical event is not aloud, then neither is Santa.(or any other celebration) I will provide you with a link.
reference Post & Courier
Once again thank you, and "Merry Christmas"
Thomas
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2009/dec/21/group-requests-remov...
-
Permalink Reply by J. D. Rinard on
-
Remember Christmas without CHRIST is Mess.
Jesus IS the reason for this season. HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESUS!!
Merry Chritsmas all.
J.D.
P.S. If I offended you oh well.
-
Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
-
Thomas, outside of the new testament where else is there any historical proof that jesus was born, much less at the time, place or manner in which is traditionally shown? Sorry, it's not historical it's biblical and as such has no place on municipal property.
But, let me ask you this, how would you feel if a group of muslims wanted to put islamic displays on or in front of your firehouse? Would you support them in doing so? Better yet would you assist them in doing so. Or would your 'born again' status not allow you to?
Tell you what Thomas, the day someone comes to your house or place of worship and tells you you can not have any religious displays showing, contact me. I will be right there next to you protesting for your right to display your beliefs in your home, property or church and I will gladly march and protest to ensure you have and maintain that right.
It's not going to be taken away from you or anyone else. But a fire department is a municipal department and as such has to be non-partisan when it comes to religion and religious displays. But let me put it to you another way, how would you feel being tried in a court of law in a country that not only has different beliefs than you but those beliefs already condemn you simply because you are a christian. Now imagine a non-christian having to go into a court or town hall in this country, all ablaze with christian religious displays. Do you think they are going to feel that they will be treated fairly and equally?
-
Permalink Reply by Paul Dudan on
-
Jack my original intent was not to condescend but to bring up the point for those who may not know or may not be at that stage of an education yet. As you spoke mentions of Jesus and conjuecture, has any proof or mention been brought forth to disprove his exsistance? My point being that if there was any disbelief or to my original thoughts why would(the opposition) not cry outrage and fight these teachings to college and high school students alike across our United States.
-
-
Paul, no disrespect but I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding your point here but I'll try.
The onus is not on the skeptic to disprove something but rather on the believer to prove something so. To claim a person existed needs to be verified by multiple sources. The name jesus does appear in a couple of historical documents but beyond the name, no other information exists (that I'm aware of) outside of church dogma. Even accepting that jesus existed, as well as mohamed, buddah and abraham, any real data has either been lost or transliterated to the point of meaninglessness.
If (again) I'm understanding you correctly, outside of a class that teaches comparative religions, religions are not taught as historically accurate or even as history. They are taught as (perhaps) the history of religions.
-
-
Howard, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, or lack thereof. But I would rather not see this digress into an attack of righteousness on one side or the other.
-
-
Consider this:
Remove religion from the issue here and institute another controversy amongst people....politics.
You have the right and "freedom of speech" to campaign for whatever candidate you want on your own time. You can put all the yard signs you want in your yard. You can scream from the top of your lungs why you believe this is the best person to be voted in. Individual freedom....freedom of speech...there you go.
Why can't you do that while ON-DUTY as a firefighter or place yard signs in front of the station then???
Is it infringing on your freedom of speech? Are your beliefs being quashed?
NO, because you are a representative of the public and your views can be constued as the depts endorsement of a certain candidate. It is the same reason you can't campaign in a FD uniform. You represent the community and as such your personal feelings and beliefs can be easily misconstrued as a public endorsement on a candidate.
This is the very same reason military members can not campaign in uniform or make it appear as they are endorsing one candidate over another. Their freedom of speech is still there, they can put yard signs in their yard or have bumber stickers on their car, but they can't campaign while on official public duty.
Now...take out the politics here and reinstitute religion and you may see the reason this is not an infringement.
-
-
J.D.
No offense taken here.
Please re-read the original post. The creche was removed from the fire station because it is a public building. It was not about whether one religion is right or wrong or even whether or not decorations should be put up. It was about tolerance. As a christian I have to assume that you understand the teachings of jesus. This is a post about tolerance, acceptance and everyone getting along. This is not the place to come and proselytize although you are welcome to post your own thread in that vein.
-
Permalink Reply by Matt Hatfield on
-
1st I want to say Jack I see where you are coming from when your explaining of why these things should not be displayed at a Town,Gov,State building/site and now that Im not using my hot headed reasoning I have to nod in agreement.
Now what I think tends to start the fire is that these symbols of this holiday have always been allowed to be displayed for many years with no complaints.So I think people forget that these symbols of Christmas do represent a religion not just a day when Santa comes.
Now w/that said I want to state for me Christmas is more about the magic that once was had as a child , the smells sounds and just the feeling of being a kid and knowing Santa was soon to come w/gifts,not a religion.
-
-
wolfgang, YES! there is no rational reason to have 'in god we trust' on our money. But THAT is not the issue here. Nor was it about an "offended" party asking for inclusion. It WAS about the fact that a religious display was put up on municipal property, e.g. government property.
The ISSUE here is about tolerance, of religion, races, origin, sex and sexual orientation. It's about we as firefighters being MORE tolerant, after all, we are held to a higher standard.
-
-
Matt, I'm glad you see that it's not against religion. In fact it's been so watered down that it mostly isn't even a religious holiday anymore. I have a lot of friends that are non-christian that look forward to it as much as anyone. And I'm all in favor of what it means to kids.
I don't advocate infringing on anyone's religious beliefs but I do challenge them to actually live by what they preach (or their religion teaches them).
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
