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Should Felons be allowed to be Firefighters?
I am wondering what you all thought about a few things.
1) Should Felons be allowed to be Firefighters?
2) Does your fire department hire felons?
3) If you are a firefighter and you are convicted of a felony, should you be fired?
The reason why I bring this up is because I got an email recently about Richmond (VA) Fire Department hiring.
Apparently, they have dropped the requirements for employment:
* Have no felony convictions for any offense within 60 months preceding the date of application;
I got the information here
I cannot speak for the department if this was an actual drop in requirement or if it has always been this way.
I thought that if you were a felon, you were always a felon. The only way to get a felony off your record is to have the Courts expunge it from your record.
What do you all think?
1) Should Felons be allowed to be Firefighters?
2) Does your fire department hire felons?
3) If you are a firefighter and you are convicted of a felony, should you be fired?
The reason why I bring this up is because I got an email recently about Richmond (VA) Fire Department hiring.
Apparently, they have dropped the requirements for employment:
* Have no felony convictions for any offense within 60 months preceding the date of application;
I got the information here
I cannot speak for the department if this was an actual drop in requirement or if it has always been this way.
I thought that if you were a felon, you were always a felon. The only way to get a felony off your record is to have the Courts expunge it from your record.
What do you all think?
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on
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I think you shouldn't write on a public website that you falsified a government document. I know you wanted to tell your exceptional story but a judge might not be so lenient, IMHO. TCSS
Great success story though. -
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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I'm an honest god fearing person..... I had to lie on my application to get hired by my current employer (they must not have done a background check) and I also had to lie on my state application for my Paramedic license.... My employer is starting a new policy will require everyone to get finger printed even the old timers, my days are numbered....I even served in the army and i have my DD 214 forms that show I was honorably discharged after 4 years. Great way to treat a vet...... anyway I would like to hear what you guys think,
Some of your quotes here Eric.
First of all, how can you really claim to be an honest person and in the next breath state how you lied to get on the job you are in today and to have lied to pass the license for medic? Conflicting, would you not agree?
Your employer is going to get fingerprints so your days are numbered? If so, I would hope because of lying than your past record.
Here is the issue I see. There are many, many people who have never committed a crime, nor even been in the wrong place at the wrong time who can not get a job on a FD, let alone someone who was convicted. Now, I would agree there should be some things considered, but I am against lying. After all for you to join the Army you had to be up front and honest, correct? (yes, I know you did) Why should it be any different then for a fire department? See the problem is you think you can not get a fair shake because of a conviction and feel you need to lie to hide the fact, yet you still served in the military. Do you honestly think a conviction is an automatic disqual? Despite the comments you read here, how many fire departments have you actually tried to get on?
See, I know of a fire department that did hire a person with a felony. Yes, it made some waves in the community and those of us in fire school at the time. He washed out because of his test scores, but still remains that dept did look past the conviction and gave him a chance. I personally know of a former member of my dept who was arrested and lost his job with us who was given a second chance by another department too. He was never convicted, but that dept knew full well of what transpired and they still took a chance on him.
Here is the thing, first and foremost honesty is the key. Be up front and honest about things. Personally if you feel compelled to lie the rest of your life, I don't want to work with you, nor would I agree you are an honest person. This is your past, own up to it, you screwed up, take responsibility, don't hide, that would have more stock, even if you don't get hired, than to lie, get hired and discovered on a background. Secondly, you have an Honorable Discharge from the Army, use that to show that when given another chance you could make a difference. Lying is fricking cowardice, own up to the mistakes, and maybe you will find a dept willing to take a chance as the Army did. Despite the common thinking (and no I don't agree with felons getting hired) there are places that give a second chance. -
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Permalink Reply by Jake Fireman on
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Bro....If all you say is true, I would think twice before posting that I lied to get my job, I lied to get my paramedic cert. There are people out there who watch and look into such things. Just be careful man!
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Eric...People arent treating a "vet" poorly. They are looking at the felon. 5 years, 10, 20, or 22, a conviction is still a conviction. Where should the line be drawn? Does a feloneous crime "undo" itself after 20 years? If someone raped some one 15 years ago but hasnt done it since (really honest guys I havent) does that make it "not so"? I'm not saying you're a bad guy, I don't know you. My gut tells me I don't want felons as firefighters. The law in many states says that as well. It is NOT personal to you...but as I said...where should that "magic" line be drawn???
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Permalink Reply by Alan Shaw on
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There is a somewhat related factor that I will admit is only an issue in the Volunteer sector, but here goes.
Most governments have rules against hiring felons, this includes in the fire service. Most private organizations do not have such rules written down. If we in the volunteer sector wish to truly be seen as equals to our career counterparts, then we must be willing to hold ourselves to the same (or at least very similar) basic standards.
Back when FEMA was looking for firefighters to deploy after Hurricane Katrina two of the career firefighters in my station applied and were accepted. Another wanted to go but had to have a partner. I was willing to go with him, and was turned down because FEMA said they didn't have time to do a background check on me as a volunteer. They were confident that all career firefighters had had background checks. So the fact that there are departments that accept felons as volunteers basically worked against me. -
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Permalink Reply by eric nelson on
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I'm telling my story to try and inform everyone that all felons are not the same and I assure you I'n not standing up for all felons to have their rights restored! I was just seeking what you guys think regarding my situation. Some of you mentioned a murderer or rapist should never be giving a second chance and I agree 100% but, I was talking about my situation. If you guys were making the hiring decision why would you not hire me???? Please re-read my previous post and look at everything that I have accomplished and look at my situation and tell me you still would not even let me get my foot in the door!
I know I offended some of you by stating I had to lie on my application, but you have no idea what its like. No I'm not seeking sympathy, I'm just stating the facts! Prior to my current job I had applied to over 600 employers and not just in the fire service, over 595 places turned me down because of the felony. I'm a very honest person with the exception of this felony. I want to reiterate that I'm not seeking any sympathy I just want to get actual firefighters opinions about my case specifically. I wish I could be honest but the number of interviews I went to and the applications I sent out was not exagerated! I can not do anything else to prove myself. As I previously stated I have a Master's Degree, Army Vet, Medic license, volunteer as a coach and volunteer within my community. I gurantee I would pass any lie detector test regarding my character! My credit score is sky high! My whole point I guess is, yes most felons are terrible people and most will always go back to crime, but if you go back and read my story, I really think someone should give me a chance! You guys have to agree 22 years and I'm still being judged for this. I even have tried to show the potential employers my lie detector results and the letter of support I recieved from the lead detective, but it just blows my mind when they see everything that I have accomplished in life and all of the reference letters I have and they still say no. I agree 999 out of 1,000 may be a bad choice, but you always have the one that has turned his life around, heck I really never turned my life around, I made a bad choice for 2 minutes of my life and this 2 minutes has created all of this! I have always been a great person.
What would help, but I know it will never happen, would be to have the lawmakers create a law that states any felon who has been out of trouble for at least 15 years and their crime did not injury anyone will have the crime sealed from employers........ Anyway I think I have said enough I hope I opened up some of your minds and at least my situation! Once again, I don't know why people judge me on something that happend 22 years ago. I could see if it was 3 or 4 years ago but 22 come on! I know where you guys are coming from because I would not a felon working for me either, but my case is different so it would be nice if employers did not have a do not hire a felon policy. Anyway I have said my piece and I really appreciate and respect your opinions. I will read the posts, but I will not carry on any longer. Thanks guys,
eric -
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Permalink Reply by heath markley on
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All people do bad things in thier life, some just get caught.
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Permalink Reply by Loyd Dittfurth on
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Heres a thought for you eric. See what it would take to get the decision overturned in court. Explain that there going to run background checks and you will loose your license and be let go. I dont know of any DA that wouldnt say yes we can do somthing to that (drop it or lower it to a misdemenor).
Or there could be the fact that you were 17 when that happened. Dont know what happened in that state. But, theres alot of states that expunge your record at the age of 18.
Just a few thoughts -
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Loyd:
I have suggested that.
He ignored me.
Apparently, he didn't like my "tone".
Art -
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Permalink Reply by Steven on
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It depends on the individual and it should be kept a private matter between the candidate and the individuals in charge of hiring.
In a volunteer department it should be the same way, between the candidate and the recruitment committee.
There are several different classes of felonies and some are minor compared to others. It can also vary from state to state. If you have a felony conviction for a high school prank gone wrong (felony toilet papering?) when you were 16 and you are now 30 something trying to get in to a volunteer fire department, should that conviction be an automatic disqualifier?
I think it should be judged on a case by case scenario.
Are there felons in my department? I really don't know, and I really don't care. I trust the people that do our background checks and the process an individual needs to go through to become a firefighter in our department. We are human and we are allowed to make mistakes from time to time. -
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Bad things, yes.
Felonies; not so much. -
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Not at all Art, I appreciate all of your advice and I also appreciate you taking the time to respond! Thanks again Art and to all of you guys who gave me advice. I may actually try contacting an attorney to see if they will redcuce the charge........ Thanks again guys.
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