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Should Felons be allowed to be Firefighters?
I am wondering what you all thought about a few things.
1) Should Felons be allowed to be Firefighters?
2) Does your fire department hire felons?
3) If you are a firefighter and you are convicted of a felony, should you be fired?
The reason why I bring this up is because I got an email recently about Richmond (VA) Fire Department hiring.
Apparently, they have dropped the requirements for employment:
* Have no felony convictions for any offense within 60 months preceding the date of application;
I got the information here
I cannot speak for the department if this was an actual drop in requirement or if it has always been this way.
I thought that if you were a felon, you were always a felon. The only way to get a felony off your record is to have the Courts expunge it from your record.
What do you all think?
1) Should Felons be allowed to be Firefighters?
2) Does your fire department hire felons?
3) If you are a firefighter and you are convicted of a felony, should you be fired?
The reason why I bring this up is because I got an email recently about Richmond (VA) Fire Department hiring.
Apparently, they have dropped the requirements for employment:
* Have no felony convictions for any offense within 60 months preceding the date of application;
I got the information here
I cannot speak for the department if this was an actual drop in requirement or if it has always been this way.
I thought that if you were a felon, you were always a felon. The only way to get a felony off your record is to have the Courts expunge it from your record.
What do you all think?
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by daniel on
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why punish them more for a mistake they made in the past be cose they did it in the first place is that is there falt
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Permalink Reply by Bob on
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have you ever made a mistake? i understand about paying for a mistake that someone made, but why should it be for the rest of there lives?
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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I understand that the felon has paid his debt to society.
They are a convicted felon because they didn't "make a mistake"; they chose to break the law. It's a choice; not a "mistake".
But yes; they paid for it.
And just like they lost their right to ever possess a firearm again or vote, they do not have the right to join a fire department.
There are many things that they can do within a community to show that they have turned the other cheek.
In many communities, that will not include being on their fire department.
If their fragile psyche can't take the rejection, then they shouldn't even try it.
Maybe the Lion's Club will take them. -
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Permalink Reply by Fire Critic on
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Hypothetically,
A child molester does time in jail and gets out on good behavior.
You say no problem being a firefighter?
A drunk driver kills someone and does time for vehicular manslaughter and gets out on good behavior.
You say hire em they have done the time?
An arsonist burns down the local church and endangers firefighters lives in the process.
You say...no biggie once they get out of jail after their sentence?
I know what you are going to say..."I said depending on the situation". I haven't come up with a situation yet that doesn't sound like a bad idea.
Especially when there might be hundreds of other qualified non-felons in line for the job, or willing to be a volunteer.
I say no. I am with Art on this one! -
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AND...
Having felons on the fire department may keep good, young law-abiding citizens from wanting to join up.
As I said before; if you are in a position where you have to split hairs on the criminal charges and put felons on your fire department, then you may want to start a recruitment program or start talks with a neighboring department about combining departments.
The recidivism (committing crime after release from prison) rate on certain crimes is very high. Drug addicts, for instance, have a recidivism rate of almost 100%. On the other hand, sex offenders have a much lower recidivism rate of 5.3%. And people who kill their spouses rarely commit crime after release from prison.
But...
Why would you want to roll the dice?
I wouldn't and I won't.
TCSS.
Art -
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Permalink Reply by eric nelson on
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After reading all of your posts I respectfully disagree with most of them and here is why. I'm a Paramedic and I work for a hospital based EMS Agency. I have been a Paramedic for just over 10 years. I'm an honest god fearing person and I have a great family. I'm involved with my children and even coach my daughters sports teams. Here is the issue, yes I have a felony on my record. I had to lie on my application to get hired by my current employer (they must not have done a background check) and I also had to lie on my state application for my Paramedic license (they too must not have completed the background check). I had no choice but to lie otherwise we all know I would have never recieved my Paramedic license nor would I have been hired.
Here is the situation, I was convicted of a felony over 22 years ago and I have never been in trouble prior or after this incident. I was with 3 others that I had just met and they wanted to do a beer run. All I did was sit in the car I know this is still a crime but I was 17 and not thinking properly. However, instead of doing the beer run they demanded money from the cashier and we were all charged with Armed Robbery. I was stunned! After the others ran back to the vehicle and told me what they did I dropped them off at home and went to the police the next day (I should have gone that night but I didnt). I did go the next day and told them everything. The prosecutor wanted me to plea to accessory after the fact, I said no way. The lead detective told me the prosecutor was over zealous and would not even listen to him. I unfortanatly went to court and for whatever reason was found guilty. The judge stated he believed me however, I was found guilty so he had to sentence me. The police department went to bat for me and all I recieved with 2 years probation.
In reallity I recieved a life sentence. I will never be able to be a firefighter because of a crime that I should have never been charged with. I even passed a lie detector test and have the paperwork, but no one cares. I turned myself into the police and explained I had no idea they were doing this and the lie detector confirmed this. Why would I turn myself in if I was a part of this and how could I pass a lie detector???? My point is, yes most felons are nasty people and deserve what they get however, my case is different. The felony is a life sentence. My employer is starting a new policy will require everyone to get finger printed even the old timers, my days are numbered. I have been a great medic for 10 years, but I guarantee this will not matter!
I think if you have not been convicted of another crime after 10 years or even 20 years than the felony should fall off of your record. I have not been in trouble for over 22 years, I have a masters degree, paramedic license, and volunteer coach, but that does not matter people judge me on something that happend 22 years ago inwhich I dont think I should have ever been charged! I should have never turned these people into the police and I probably would never had to go through this! I have plenty of friends who are police officers and firefighters and they have no idea, I'm still to embarrassed to tell them even after 22 years! My second point is yes I have a felony but that was soooooo long ago and fire departments should listen to my circumstances and let me show them the lie detector test. I even have a letter of support from the lead detective, but it does not matter, all you see is a felony and end of story!
What do you guys think???????
God Bless all you firefighters,
Eric -
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My first thought is....everyone in prison is innocent just ask them.
Your story is very compelling but I am not the judge and apparently he saw it differently.
And lastly....if you lied on everything else why not just lie to become a firefighter. I always thought becoming a Paramedic was tougher than becoming a firefighter. -
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One other thing for you guys who think felons can not serve in the military, after my probation for this crime, I applied for a waiver and the army accepted me. I was a medic 92 Bravo and served side by side with the infantry. After re-reading some of the posts I can see why I will never ever have a chance. Even after everything I stated you will still have people like Art and Paul and state I dont care no felons period. You guys are going to judge who I am today based on something that happened 22 years ago?????? Why not judge me on what I have accomplished since????? I should have never been convicted and like I said I even passed a lie detector. Yes it is bothersome still after all these years. I even served in the army and i have my DD 214 forms that show I was honorably discharged after 4 years. Great way to treat a vet...... anyway I would like to hear what you guys think,
thanks -
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Permalink Reply by Loyd Dittfurth on
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thank you for your service to our country!!!!
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It isn't about you. It is about felons. There are exceptions to every rule and you claim you are it for felons. I am not going to disagree with that. I said you have a compelling story although I am just reading it on a forum.
As for felons and exceptions to the rule....there is not way to have a felon fit for duty test. It just isn't possible so every felon gets lumped into one category...felons.
Maybe it is unfortunate....however like someone stated earlier...there aren't any "good" felonies. -
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Eric:
I didn't write the laws.
I didn't judge your case.
I didn't write the rules; the firefighters did.
I don't set the norms for society.
It is what it is.
And just because I state that, I'm the one that is suppose to feel guilty?
Not on a bet.
If you were wrongfully convicted, then I would seek clemency. THEN, you will be cleared and your record expunged and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Why is it that the law abiding citizens are accused of some sort of bias by people who had some sort of "dust up" in their life?
Again; if you were screwed by the system, then I suggest you contact your state rep and set the record straight.
For the record, I have friends who have served time.
But, they aren't on my fire department, nor will they be. And we're still friends. They get it.
TCSS.
Art -
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I know, but I dont think fire departments should look at criminal records from 20 years ago. At the end I agree I would not hire your typical felon. Its just unfortanate that I have this damn thing on my record and thats why I think fire departments or any employer for that matter should not rubber stamp no to all felons. Like I said I agree I would not hire your typical felon, but there is no system in place for me to distinguish myself from the other felons. Fire Critic I appreciate your feed back!
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