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Permalink Reply by 144Truck on October 19, 2009 at 8:49am

Firearms prohibited unless the member is a sworn LE Officer. In the case of sworn LE, the weapon must be secured.

Note* I have been swon LE since 1982 and carried both while in uniform as well as off-duty..... Always secured the weapon in a locked compartment.

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Permalink Reply by Jason McDonald on October 19, 2009 at 9:38am

Thanks for the insight. I was in the Military and when I was, we did not carry in our department either. As for being a LEO, thats ok if you are a LEO. Although, I never knew of a LEO that actually used the privilege to carry inside the department.

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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on October 19, 2009 at 11:49pm

You're welcome

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Permalink Reply by coronahawk on October 21, 2009 at 12:10am

In Arizona we have a SB1168 that allows us to carry in our vehicles, public or private.

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Permalink Reply by Jason McDonald on October 21, 2009 at 11:28am

what are your department rules for you carrying on the job? If it is prohibited, what are the action taken against a person that breaks that rule?

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Permalink Reply by coronahawk on October 22, 2009 at 1:30am

Termination if you carry in the firehouse.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Shaw on October 23, 2009 at 12:10am

First of all if you forget that you are carrying a firearm, then you probably shouldn't be allowed to carry one in the first place, firefighter or not.

Most municipal departments probably fall under the municipality's workplace violence rule which usually equate possession of a weapon with acting violent. This of course bears no resemblance to reality as most violent criminals are not in LEGAL possession of their firearms anyway.

My department has an SOG that was written based on a couple of such rules, and then had an exemption added for Law Enforcement Officers. The rule actually requires weapons to be left in personal vehicles, which is in my opinion far less safe than being carried by a person. We also have current (and past) members who work as either armed guards or bail enforcement and do come to the firehouse either before or after work.

I am one of those members, and frequently work at a site less than a 1/2 mile from the station. I think our rule is poorly written and does not address our current needs, I lobby regularly for it to be changed. We are not allowed to have firearms in the station or on the apparatus but have no rule about being on scene. We also have no restriction on out of the building participation with firearms. The unfortunate part is that the specific officer who is in charge of enforcing / changing that rule simply ignores it. In the meantime, I have been picked up by the Chief in a department vehicle from work in order to get to the station faster. I have responded to and took command of a call a block from work while I was in my security uniform.

Now the flip side of my soapbox, is that guns come with ammunition. Ammo is essentially lots of little bombs. The last thing I want attached to my body while I am in a burning building (or even a potentially burning one) are lots of little bombs. Thus unless I have a way to safely secure my firearm, I will not go on a fire call.

So the short answer is that I don't think one should engage in firefighting while armed, however your rule should be written with a healthy dose of common sense and a mind for your department's current needs.

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Permalink Reply by Jason McDonald on October 23, 2009 at 2:26am

Alan, that was a lot of food for thought, I will keep that in mind when writing the SOP. I I appreciate your insight. I never thought about adding "on scene" to the SOP because it should be a given that if you are on scene then you should not carry. Because of you, I will need to rethink things a bit.

After the SOP is done, we will be enforcing it. I hate when people write rules but do not enforce them, that destroys credibility.

TCSS,

J

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Permalink Reply by Alan Shaw on October 23, 2009 at 3:11am

We allow members to respond from home or work or wherever in personal vehicles (within limits set in another SOG) so this is how one can end up on scene without being on the apparatus.

I would think that there should be a rule that says no firefighting while armed. This would cover the on scene aspect just fine. The call I went to and took command at, I stayed out on the front lawn, so I was out of any potential hot zone, and it was an activated alarm. So in that one and only case, I was on scene but not in a dangerous environment.

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Permalink Reply by capt4021 on October 23, 2009 at 4:58am

I know our By-Laws state that no firearms inside the buiding. For the fact that probably 95% of the firefighers in my departments were avid hunters and we didn't see the point and lack of safety someone would take to drive home to drop there firearm off than drive back to the firehouse for the alarm. As we thought that even the laws prohibit it we pretty much knew how our members would respond to there house and back to the firehouse. However if any of our members are caught responding recklessley its 1st time you get a verbal warning 2nd your out the door. But as for the firearm goes its for any kind of weapon except for a pocket knife. and if your caught with a weapon its an automatic expulsion from the company.

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