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Fire Department Drum Major Quits After Being Suspended in Obama Nod
Drum Major John Coleman of the Cleveland Firefighters Memorial Pipes and Drums band has quit the group following his initial suspension from the band for six months after a nod and wave at President Barack Obama during last week's inaugural parade.
Coleman's resignation from the band, first reported by the Plain Dealer earlier today, comes after becoming the center of a nationwide firestorm on whether the initial suspension was appropriate -- or over the top.
"There are too many bridges burned with the pipe band, too many hurt feelings on both sides," Coleman told the Plain Dealer, fire inspector for Cleveland Heights, Ohio.
Here's a story from CNN.com about the original suspension, including an interview with the man at the center of it all (well, not Obama but...)
What are your thoughts on this? Should he have been suspended for breaking 'military parade protocol'? Should he have quit (granted, the press was substantial -- but the outcry was mostly over him being suspended)? What would you have done if marching by the newly minted President?
Some more links:
Coleman's resignation from the band, first reported by the Plain Dealer earlier today, comes after becoming the center of a nationwide firestorm on whether the initial suspension was appropriate -- or over the top.
"There are too many bridges burned with the pipe band, too many hurt feelings on both sides," Coleman told the Plain Dealer, fire inspector for Cleveland Heights, Ohio.
Here's a story from CNN.com about the original suspension, including an interview with the man at the center of it all (well, not Obama but...)
What are your thoughts on this? Should he have been suspended for breaking 'military parade protocol'? Should he have quit (granted, the press was substantial -- but the outcry was mostly over him being suspended)? What would you have done if marching by the newly minted President?
Some more links:
- Statter 911: Drum Major Waves Goodbye for Good
- Plain Dealer: Drum Major John Coleman quits pipe and drum band afte...
- Caught on Video: Ohio firefighter suspended as drum major after ack...
- Video: Interview with John Coleman
- Plain Dealer Interview with Coleman BEFORE the Inauguration
- CNN: After suspension for nodding at Obama, drum major quits
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by William Hardy on
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This is NOT an HONOR GUARD, this is a pipe and drums band and they can not be compared. They are two completely different groups of people. Something was said in an earlier post and I totally agree. The bands argument is they want to follow military protocol and Mr. Coleman was the LEADER of that band. When the COMMANDER IN CHIEF acknowledges a military unit, it is the job of the units LEADER to acknowledge the President. Mr. Coleman acknowledged the president and did absolutely nothing wrong.
FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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Maybe the others are pissed becasue the President didn't wave to them??!!! :)
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Permalink Reply by lmaz on
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It dawns on me that nobody is really addressing what the problem was - politics, or rather the attempt on the band's leadership to KEEP THE POLITICS OUT of their involvement in the parade.
That is PROBABLY why the band was ordered to behave according to military protocol. The military acknowledges and respects the POSITION OF PRESIDENT, and superior officers and heads of other states. It does not demonstrate either like or dislike (approval or disapproval ) of who won an election or which party is in power. It remains neutral politically and puts itself at the service of whoever the people choose as President. This is especially true when one is in uniform.
Everyone here seems to assume that Mr. Coleman was merely acknowledging THE PRESIDENT.
I don't think so. I think he was acknowledging THE MAN, BARAK OBAMA and the fact that Mr. Obama,
the man, had won the election.
BUT, I could be wrong about all the above, couldn't I?? And therein lies the problem!
However, I still say I believe it quite likely that the reason Mr. Coleman's superiors thought he needed to be reprimanded was because he had chosen to disregard their concern for keeping politics out of the band's participation.
So, then the question becomes, had they made it clear enough what they were doing? Did he deliberately disregard their wishes (game plan, if you will) or did he misunderstand? Or did he just react spontaneously out of a lack of discipline and control over his behavior? Did he not realize that he was representing the WHOLE TEAM, and had a responsibility to behave with dignity and respect towards the OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT? Did he not realize that at that moment in history he was NOT just an average citizen with an opportunity to express his personal joy at having Mr. Barak Obama as his President?
One has to wonder whether he would have done what he did if McCaine had been standing there? The answer is that there's no way to know. The simple fact is that when Mr. Coleman did what he did he introduced politics and all these questions into what should have been his moment to hold his head high and REPRESENT AND LEAD HIS TEAM in a politically neutral manner.
Having said all this - how do I know anything about this issue? I wasn't there! I'm not a part of his life, the lives of his teammates or his band or his department or even his town! So, I don't know Jack! I'm speculating, as are all the rest of you. How many of you have read in the newspapers about an incident you worked and seen how distorted the report was? One of your firefighters twists his ankle putting out a garbage can fire and the next morning the paper headline reads: "Three Firefighters Taken To Hospital With Life Threatening Injuries At Ten Alarm Fire". Hey, we've all "been there, done that". So Mr. Coleman is using the media to defend himself and to trash the team he stormed out on after 17 years. Fine. He has that right. It's America. But, remember, you can't read minds and every witness to an accident will report the accident differently. None of us really know what happened or even whether six months was "excessive".
You see, we can all watch what happened on a video but we can never get into the heads of the people involved. Yet, motives and emotions are what many here have been discussing. Even a statement like, "six month's suspension is excessive" is mind-reading. How does anyone here know what the department's policies are, whether Mr. Coleman was aware of them, and most importantly, why his superiors thought it was necessary to suspend him at all much less for six months?
People who toss around accusations of motive should sit down and imagine that THEY are the ones being accused of some terrible thought. Go watch MINORITY REPORT with Tom Cruise again. Read George Orwell. Then get down off your self-righteous high horses that are only showing your pro-Obama, anti-authority biases anyway and realize that you also, don't know Jack about his situation.
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Permalink Reply by John A. Gallagher Jr. on
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In the milatary they would have give and eyes left to honor the present, so as the band did not do it he did it for them. He should have been warned after 17 years and told if it happens again he would be suspended. Now they don't have him.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Did anyone else in this discussion campaign, contribute then vote for McCain?
I know I did.
And I DO KNOW JACK about his situation.
I've been screwed a time or two, also.
It doesn't take George Orwell to figure that one out.
Jethro Bodine would be smart enough to realize that.
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Permalink Reply by firechief911 on
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this is got to be the biggest joke so far. i thought it was done with the most respect. I bet the president didnt make any big deal out of it . sounds to me like someone was wantin the guys job . wonder how he got the media to amplfy it . just another meida cluster blow everything out of perportion . the guy got a raw deal no dought
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Hey; I didn't bring up politics.
HE did!
The only reason that I mentioned McCain. Hasn't got anything to do with anything. I agree.
What I said earlier: It was a PARADE.
It was not a FUNERAL PROCESSION.
Lighten up, Francis.
If you have never done something spontaneous or "in the moment", then you're dead from the neck up.
I see no reason to think differently now.
I think I will now go to the truck colors thread.
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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lmaz, I'll say this: I personally hated President George W. Bush. I never voted for him, and could not wait for him to leave office. That said, however, if I were leading a parade unit, even one that was following someone's idea of "strict military protocol," and President Bush made eye contact with me and waved, I would return the informal salute. To do otherwise would introduce my politics to the situation.
I am still pretty neutral about President Obama, as I was at the begining of the younger President Bush's administration. Once my jury comes in I'll decide if I'm pro-President Obama, or Anti-President Obama. Right now I want to see how the man, Barrack Obama fulfills the office to which he was elected. I keep my politics out of my offical decisions, and in fact none of my co-workers, superiors or subordinates know my politics. I do not wear my politics on my sleeve as some people do.
By the way, you will notice I always use the title President when referring to any President of the United States, current or former. I understand you are anti-President Obama, but he is still the President and it is proper to use his positional title whenever you refer to him. Just as I referred to former President Bush in my writing. Respect for the position of President and for the People of the United States who elected him to the office.
You, sir, are the one showing your biases, which because this is America you are free to do. Just as everyone who has seen the video has the right to speculate on the situation. We are free to judge what we believe are other people's motives for their actions, it is something we humans have developed a pretty good ability to do - no matter what our accuracy is! The fact is, nobody on here who is commenting is in a position to do anything about the situation in Cleveland's Pipe and Drum Corps, so we ARE free to speculate. That is the right our as Americans; the freedom of speech.
Perhaps you should go back and read your George Orwell, or your Ray Bradbury, or perhaps your Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, or Thomas Paine!
God bless the United States, our Constitution and our way of life. Amen.
GM
GM
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Permalink Reply by E. Dorney on
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6 months ? Seems like a bit much to me. Sure he could have saluted instead of waving , but not to acknowledge the Commander in Chief would have been much worse.
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Permalink Reply by Don Vuletic on
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We could go on and on about this but the fact is, we were not there and its thier problem now. They have major damage control to do now and I will be suprised if they survive this. What a shame. I watched the video and I wont judge either side. This group has provided a valuable service for many firefighters funerals and now will suffer for this for years. I respect everyones comments and hope we get as much discussion on important topics, safety, PPE, and so on. To everyone who commented Be Safe and Always Come Home
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Brenda, This was not an honor guard... The PRESIDENT elect waved and made eye contact to John who represented the entire band. The suspension was overkill and your agreeing with punishing this 17 year veteran is also overkill. The video does not represent anything innappropriate on behalf of the drum major. What does worry me though is that you have taken such a strong stand on this. To be quite frank, I'm glad I don't have to work for you. Common sense and compassion are qualities that I respect in a firefighter, and especially in a company officer. Give the guy some slack here. If the President waved at you wouldn't you feel obligated to acknowledge this? I would.
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