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Volunteers with Lights and Sirens
What do you think, should volunteer firefighters be allowed to have and use lights and sirens in their POV ? Should only the Chief an ASST. Chief be allowed to have them ?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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Bad idea on many fronts. The following are excerpts from the 2007 USFA LODD report.
After stress or overexertion, the perennial cause of fatal injury resulting in the most firefighter fatalities is vehicle crashes. This has been the case for a number of years. In many cases, these deaths appear to have been preventable (Figure 10).
• Twenty-seven firefighters were killed in 2007 as a result of vehicle crashes.
Ten firefighters were killed in crashes that involved personal vehicles, nine while responding and one while returning from an emergency:
• Eight firefighters were killed in crashes that involved their personal vehicles while responding to an incident. In seven of the eight fatalities, the firefighter was not wearing a seatbelt. In six of the eight personal vehicle crashes while responding, excessive speed was citied as a factor in the crash.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Sullivan on
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lights only...nothing allows us to exceed any posted speed limits and sirens would only encourage excessive speed and might increase incidents during responses...maybe the chief.... maybe
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Permalink Reply by Fire Capt. 1304 on
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It's blue or blue/clear for us here in Iowa no sirens are allowed. I think we should have sirens because lights are hard to see if you are'nt looking for them. There needs to be training and certain stipulations attached such as taking permits away from repeat offenders.
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Permalink Reply by Art Sutherland on
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I just thought i would post this for your reading. I have started to break each year down looking at the Firefighters that have been killed in Pov's. I am starting at 2000 and going to work my way up to 2007.
Someone on here told me I should break things down and deal only in facts. Thanks for the great tip. When you break things down they look a lot diferent...
In 2000, nineteen firefighters died while responding to incidents and seven died while returning from incidents.
Below are the Firefighters that died responding or returning in their (POV) Personal Owen Vehicle.
U.S. Fire Administration Firefighter Fatalities in the United States in 2000
July 2, 2000 Nathan Andrew Pescatore, Firefighter Age 17, Volunteer Lloydsville Fire Department and Relief Association, Pennsylvania.
REFERENCE: FA 215, 8/2001 Firefighters Fatalities in the United States in 2000 Report, Page A-28.
http://www.everyonegoeshome.com/resources/fatality/2000.pdf
Firefighter Pescatore was responding as the sole occupant and driver of his personal vehicle to a report of a structure fire. He crossed the centerline of the road as he entered a curve in the road. As he rounded the curve, he came upon a farm tractor approaching from the opposite direction. Firefighter Pescatore’s view of the tractor as he drove into the curve was blocked by vegetation.
Fire Pescatore was unable to get back into his lane and struck the farm tractor head on. The loader bucket on the front of the tractor was driven through both drivers’ side roof posts and severely injured Firefighter Pescatore. Firefighters responding on mutual aid to the structure fire were diverted to the collision and were joined by Lyodsville Firefighters at the scene. After Firefighter Pescatore was extricated, he was flown by helicopter to the hospital.
Firefighter Pescatore was pronounced dead at the hospital due to blunt force trauma to the head.
Blue Lights: Can be used on law enforcement vehicles with red or by Volunteer fire fighters alone – Siren: Authorized emergency vehicles or volunteer fire officers (with red lights) only.
September 1, 2000 Albert Leonel Voris, Jr., Lieutenant Age 63, Volunteer Combine Volunteer Fire Department, Texas
REFERENCE: FA 215, 8/2001 Firefighters Fatalities in the United States in 2000 Report, Page A-38. http://www.everyonegoeshome.com/resources/fatality/2000.pdf
Lieutenant Voris was responding to the fire station as the driver and sole occupant of his personal vehicle after his department was dispatched to the report of a vehicle fire. An oncoming vehicle crossed the centerline of the roadway and struck Lieutenant Voris’s vehicle head on.
Firefighters at the scene of the car fire responded for the vehicle accident upon their arrival found Lieutenant Voris entrapped. Lieutenant Voris was pronounced dead at the scene prior to the completion of the extrication. The driver of the other vehicle received minor injuries.
Lieutenant Voris was wearing his seat belt at the time of the collision. The cause of death for Lieutenant Voris was listed as multiple blunt force trauma. The cause of the car fire was listed as suspicious.
September 17, 2000 Robert Wilson Humphrey, Firefighter Age 62, Volunteer Maryland Line Volunteer Fire Company, Maryland
REFERENCE: FA 215, 8/2001 Firefighters Fatalities in the United States in 2000 Report, Page A-41.
http://www.everyonegoeshome.com/resources/fatality/2000.pdf
Firefighter Humphrey to the scene of a motor vehicle collision in his personal vehicle. He parked his car on the right shoulder of the highway and began to cross the road to assist a battalion chief who had already arrived on scene. As Firefighter Humphrey crossed, a midsized sedan struck him. Firefighters arriving in response to the original incident assisted with the treatment of the original accident victim and Firefighter Humphrey.
Firefighter Humphrey and the victim to the original accident were transported to the hospital by helicopter. Firefighter Humphrey died later that day in surgery. The cause of death was listed as a result of multiple trauma.
November 17, 2000 Thomas J. Hazaz, Fire Police Lieutenant age 69, Volunteer TunkTownship Volunteer Fire Company, Pennsylvania
REFERENCE: FA 215, 8/2001 Firefighters Fatalities in the United States in 2000 Report, Page A-50.
http://www.everyonegoeshome.com/resources/fatality/2000.pdf
Fire Police Lieutenant Hazaz responded to the scene of a motor vehicle accident with members of his department. When he arrived on the scene in his personal vehicle, Fire Police Lieutenant Hazaz received orders from the fire chief by radio. As he passed the scene enroute to his assignment, he waived the fire chief over to his pickup. The chief opened the door of the pickup and repeated hid orders. Fire Police Lieutenant Hazaz waved to acknowledge the order and placed his hands on the wheel. The chief closed the pickup’s door and noted that the vehicle did not move. The chief opened the door and discovered that Fire Police Lieutenant Hazaz was suffering a heart attack.
Firefighters removed Fire Police Lieutenant Hazaz from his pickup, CPR was started, and an ambulance was called. The ambulance that was on scene for the initial accident had departed for the hospital. Despite efforts on the scene and on the way to the hospital, Fire Police Lieutenant Hazaz was pronounced dead at the hospital. The cause of death was listed as atherosclerotic cardio vascular disease. Fire Police Lieutenant Hazaz’s death came on the eighth anniversary of his appointment to the fire department.
November 26, 2000 Daniel I. King, Firefighter Age 21, Volunteer Cliffside Park Fire Department, New Jersey
REFERENCE: FA 215, 8/2001 Firefighters Fatalities in the United States in 2000 Report, Page A-51.
http://www.everyonegoeshome.com/resources/fatality/2000.pdf
Firefighter King was responding to an automatic fire alarm in his personal vehicle. He was not displaying emergency or courtesy lights, but he was flashing his headlights and honking his horn. As he responded, a vehicle emerged from the side street on his right. Firefighter King swerved into the oncoming lane to avoid the collision, his vehicle began to fishtail, and he hit a transit bus head-on.
Firefighters responded to the scene and extricated Firefighter King from his vehicle. Firefighter King was wearing a seat belt but the force of the crash was too great. He died later that day. The cause of death was listed as internal trauma.
See what you think...
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Permalink Reply by anne potter on
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Art the research is amazing for what you have here.. There is always alot of debate over the lights and siren issues.. I myself feel only lights even then I feel they are overabused.. Heck I catch myself driving at times to fast.. Siren no .. Tooo much... only chiefs.. I don't think there is ever going to be a good answer for this the debate will go on.. It depends how you use them..
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Permalink Reply by JUSTIN BOEHMER on
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its mandatory in arkansas for people to pull over for firetruck, etc but im not sure if that includes pov's but here is something else first responders not on a fire department can use only clear and amber unsure about sirens but will find out about that one as i know a bunch of sherrifs in pulaski county arkansas and robbie whay county do u live in
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I have heard this before about people being confused. Read the attached file and see what Milton Ontario does for public awareness each year. They even have a green light on the grill of the fire trucks to remind the public that firefighters responding have a green light. The light in Ontario is a courtesy light and asks for the right away that must follow the traffic laws. I lived in Ontario for 17 years and have pulled over for the firefighters. The volunteer department had a big sign in front of the department to remind people what the green light was for. When they came to my house I am glad they arrived on time.
It seems there is more problems when the Pov is an emergency Vehicle then when they are used as a courtesy light.
Anyway it is great to hear the different things said about lights.
It seems that a great SOP must be in place and enforced.. Look at the attached SOP I made for us if we get the lights.
Thanks
Art - Attachments:
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GREEN LIGHTS 3.doc, 28 KB -
(POV) Personal Owen Vehicle, SOP.doc, 221 KB
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Permalink Reply by Joey "BigShow" De Piano on
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We , well most are permitted a blue light and audible horn already here in NJ however excessive use will get you a ticket its there the fine line sits and why legal law writers are hesitant to give us the green light to get all decked out with lights and siren...I can almost garuntee you this however if ever that passes and we are allowed you bet either the police chief, or mayor who signs off will demand special emergency driving courses and not for free, second you will see some take a hit to the rollcalls cause anyone with a violation will not be permitted they have to "keep a leash" on it cause you see how some who know they are already above what is allowed go hog crazy imagine being told you can. My opinion but going by whats on the books here by me.
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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on
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The state of Texas disagrees with you on 5) and 6). A POV driven by a VFF is defined as an "authorized emergency vehicle" and not posing as one. Coincidentally, and not on purpose, our VFD trucks are white and so is my pickup and there is not much visible difference between them at a short distance. I don't need to show off and act official . I'm 56 years old and have been driving for 40 years. I just need to respond directly to a scene or to one of our stations with all the warning I am authorized. I can legally run with red lights (and a siren if I wish and don't), speed and run stop lights/signs only if I don't endangering life or property. Does that mean I drive reckless when responding? Heck no, red lights are only an added safety net if I choose to exceed the speed limit on the open road or roll thru a stop sign at a deserted intersection. The distance between our stations, my house and the scenes are vast and helps reduced response time. This does not fit every VFF but it works here for me. Insurance is important and you are correct for the most part and should not be forgotten about. I pay extra so I am covered while responding. TCSS
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Permalink Reply by Wesley Hickman on
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In the state of Tennessee you MUST have a siren if you have lights. Can't run one without the other. I am a part of a volunteer department and a paid firefighter. My paid department would flip if I ran lights and sirens. At my vol. department, I am an officer and have attended many many meetings over this very issue. My county dept. has 9 stations. Five of those nine do not allow lights and sirens except the chief. Hopefully the rest will follow. My station is a small one. We have few active members and fight to get what little money we can from the community to keep going for the rest of the year. All we need is for one of our members to be involved in some type of wreck. With lights and sirens, you pretty much accept responsibility for your surroundings. It is great liability to be running emergency traffic in a fire truck, much less a POV. I like my house and everything I own and do not wish to lose it. Every agency and area is different for everyone. It may be needed somewhere to be effective, just not here.
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Permalink Reply by Michael on
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I think there needs to be extra training and strict rules so the rules are not broken and civilians aren't endangered
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on
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I believe being as a volunteer at the moment and not being able to use light and siren for the first few months of being on our department, shows to some point how one will drive with the use of lights and sirens. Our members are strictly cautioned on use of said equipment as well as speeds in at which we can drive ( we are cautioned to not drive to much over 10 mph over speed limit, which I am not going to sit hear and say we don't sometimes bend this rule to some point, but id like to think we all use caution to the speed) . We have other departments around in which are not as strict as our department and have gotten in trouble with local law enforcement. Which I believe they should if they abuse their I don't want to say power but I cant think of another word at the moment ( long day), but anyway on our department we don't run into near as much problems with the public complaining about how we drive for the most part, We will always have the ones who think they don't need to give way to emergency vehicles but thats anywhere, so in ending I believe where I live it is an asset as well as a in some instances life saving tool (not to the ones in need but for myself) to use lights and sirens due to terrain and visibility in my district. I am sure there are people out there who would totally disagree with me 100% but this is what i believe!
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