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Firemen Going to Medical Calls that are not Medically Trained!
On my department a lot of our calls are medical calls and we've got 15-20 fireman that are medical trained for this reason and the ambulance will call use when they need assistance. But we get quite a few fireman that show up that are not trained at all, they might have cpr but thats it. Nobody seems to care about this that we've got untrained people trying to help out at medical calls. My question is, is this even legal and what would happen if it would ever go to court and what can be done to try to stop it. I just dont want a lawsuit and the other fireman are like it'll never happen, maybe I'm over reacting here I dont know.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Well then... that clarifies it a great deal. Free-lancing, pure and simple. If these guys are showing up at calls they are NOT dispatched to then I doubt that they're even covered under your department's insurance.
Sounds like the chief needs to "counsel" these members. If he/she doesn't then that's an even bigger problem.
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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But most of these firefighters are "sorry to say this butt kissers" to our Chief and he feels it's not a major thing nor does he want to disaplin his buddy, if you know what I mean.
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Permalink Reply by Justin/ F-225 on
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on our department no non medically trained ff can go on med runs unless:
1. There is a first responder with them.
or
2. The ambulance is already on scene.
just because they arent trained doesnt mean they dont help out. we could always use lifting assistance and/or a good gopher. i have been one of these people until recently.
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Yeah, well he's gotta keep the butt-kissers happy, otherwise they'll stop kissing his butt...
When is the chief's term up, did you say?
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Get the group of officers together.
If they agree with their chief that this is appropriate, then you are going to continue to be frustrated.
If they don't agree with the chief, then they need to step up for their men and women.
If they do nothing, then the chief isn't the only one who has to go.
Once a chief becomes unprofessional, then the department will deteriorate quickly.
Good luck.
Art
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Permalink Reply by D.C. Sterbenz on
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I thought I was the only one with this problem lol. We are having this issue currently on the department that I work part time for. What you have to look out for is if they make a mistake that it will not come back on them because they are pretected by good semeritan laws; however, if they make a mistake it is ultimatly going to come back on the EMT or Paramedic on scene. Here is a example, I arrive first on scene and triage a pt yellow and another member of our department arrived and re-triaged green and he does not even have first responder let alone the right to triage. My advise is to do what me and other members of my department are doing and that is speaking to the chief and get the rules changed, if that does not work talk to the chiefs boss, someone will listen especially if you start to refuse running calls under these circumstances.
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Your chief may be there buddy but he has a job to do and his first priority is to do his job as chief not be a buddy.
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Permalink Reply by Capt.Alex Arnold on
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Oh yes the ever popular fieman at a medical call debate. Been waiting for this discussion. In Washington State we have the GS (Good Samaritan) law. It protects us if we take action at an incident we come along to. It does not protect us on a response from dispatch. GS law is for common Joe Public. When that tone or page comes, we are no longer Joe Public, we are proffessionals (no matter career or volunteer.) Therefore we are no longer protected by GS. If a FF only does something out of the scope of care as directed by EMS on scene they are liable and possibly the district. It is a fine line to walk! We are a combination fire/EMS district, most in our county are. The transporting agency is a private company though. Our chief, who has the ultimate TITR (Tit In The Ringer) allows the few FF only personnel respond to medicals. There are only a couple few that are not cross trained. These FFs are not allowed to respond unless medical personnel are responding also. We use them efficently on scene. They take the notes, help carry the backboard, run back and get gear, etc... They make no pt contact unless directed under our supervision. It has worked well and we have had a "hiccup" or two. One of those can be seen in photos at my page here. A FF responded and wrecked a rescue rig. But that's another story. There has never been an incident involving pt care though. Anyway, yes FF only persons on scene can be helpful. It depends on the leadership in the firehouse and giving them direction and clear instruction. It also takes a good leader on scene to make sure they help not hinder. One other quick thing about the GS law. Look at it carefully if you have it in your state. Remember how laws are written...the big print gives you all the permission to do it. The little print tells you everything that you can't do! Be safe and learn something new today.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Kahl on
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in terms of it being legal it varies from state to state like in NJ in order for a firefighter paid or volunteer in order to ride a call needs to be at min. a certified first responder. Yet on the other hand for a volunteer ems agency in the state in order for the ambulance to respond you only need one EMT on the bus. the drive doesnt not need to be a EMT or first responder they only need a valid drivers licence and cpr card thats it. This is only for the volunteer ems groups though according to the first aid council any paid agency is under the state and the state requires two emt's to be on the ambulance for ti to be a licenced ambulance. As for the the fire fighters on your department it depends on your states laws, and i understand your concern as long as they do not administer direct patient treatment but they can still collect patient information and they can still lift and carry patients as long as they're trained on how to opperate the equipment.
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That is all-in-all the same in Washington State.
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Permalink Reply by John on
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we have some that show up on the engine for medic assist calls, but when we get to the scene they are usually told to stay onboard unless they are needed for man power for lifting or returning equipment that was used.
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