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Auto extrication question
Last night my fire dept had a auto extrication training and one of the guys said to cut the a post than go to opposite side and cut the a post than go back across and cut the b post then go to opposite side and cut the b post than go back and cut the c post than go to opposite and cut the c post he said that was the way they taught him in class in bloomington?? wouldnt it be easier to cut the ABC post on one side then go to opposite side and do the same???
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Didn't know about the Toyota CD. Considering that my station's bread and butter calls are vehicle accidents, I'd sure appreciate getting info on how to obtain one. Thanks John for the post. Mike
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Permalink Reply by David Martinez on
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Depending on the situation we will cut the b post top and bottom and then the forward hinges on the front door and last the nader pin on the back door - this lets us take the b post and both doors out at the same time.
If you must cut all the posts (assuming you mean to remove the roof) we do abcd... and switch.. actually we us our TNT's on one side and a reciprocating saw on the other ... we can cut both at same time and usually finish at the same time.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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That zig-zag cut style has no real purpose as far as I know. It wastes time, effort, and motion. The cut sequence doesn't matter as much as making each individual cut effective and the cut sequence efficient, at least in most cases.
If the C-post is narrow enough to cut quickly with a hydraulic cutter or soft and unobstructed enough to cut with a recip saw, my preference is to cut C-B-A on the side farthest away from the patient, then C-B-A on the side closest to the patient. That usually means cutting the passenger side first, then the driver's side. The reason for doing this is that once you cut the posts, you tie up firefighters or other rescue personnel just standing there holding the roof until the rest of the cuts are completed. It makes sense to make the last cut in the post closest to the patient.
Let the A-post do what is is designed to do - hold the roof off of the patient's head and neck - as long as possible. This frees at least one extra rescuer for a few critical minutes and ensures that the rest of the roof is manually supported prior to the last cut being made.
Flapping the roof seems to have gone out of vogue since the advent of side impact protection and seat belt pretensioners, but if you pry and peek, then actually LOOK where you cut, you may find that flapping the roof is actually a good choice in some cases. Some cars have big, beefy C-posts that are loaded with fortified steels and side impact protection. You can avoid these by just flapping the roof. Relief cuts in the roof line in front of the C-post can reduce a multi-cut, 6-post roof removal to a 6-bite roof flap.
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Permalink Reply by Andy Entwistle on
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I agree - at least for my area. One of our neighboring departments, the smallest, does not have a jaws and relies on mutual aid. We have one full set and a second portable (gas gen.) spreader, but if we need a second tool we usually rely on mutual aid because the engine crew with that spare is usually engaged with other tasks. I think it would be a shock for some of the FFs from bigger, fully resourced depts. to see what we have to live without in smaller rural VFDs. Handheld radios, TIC - just some more examples. As Theodore Roosevelt said, "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
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Permalink Reply by Drew Tenhundfeld on
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Here's an example of cracking the egg. Like any extrication stabilization is the key component to a safe extrication. another suggestion is to cover all sharp edges to protect the rescuers from getting cut.
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100_0302.JPG, 1.1 MB
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Permalink Reply by Rob Bailey on
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one side ABC the other ABC.Or how about this if your department has two tools work together.
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Permalink Reply by Tim Green on
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I have always been taught to cut the abc post's then move to the opposite side and repeat thats how i do it and my crew does it, he sounds like a dumbass to me, what if you have a trapped vic are you really going to go back and fourth and take you sweet ass time? dont think so
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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On our department we've got 3 pumps and about a dozen tools so we've got a team on each side, it gets it done twice as fast and for you guys that only have one set of tools, while your using the tools on one side start up a generator and a sawzall with a rescue blade and start cutting the other side, we've tested this and found that on a standard extrication that the sawzall is all most as fast.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Turnage on
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The easy way to remove the top is have two tools and two men cutting. Im unsure if your dept. has more than one set of tools but when we take off a top we have two men cutting and two men stablizing the roof (keeping it off the medic and pt.). We cut together A post B post ect. If you only have one set of tools i would save time and flap the roof to one side. If you do that it would be easy to exticate w/ only a two man crew and one set of tools. This method would be easier cut A,B,C on one side w/ the other man stablizing the roof. The cut man would then go to the other side and at the top of the post (A,B,C) crimp them do not cut completly thru. Both men then would flap the roof to one side. Keep in mind time and when you get the call you are already behind the ball your pt. is trapped. Tell your buddy that he needs to go and retake extrication and if he want to run uselessly to get on a treadmill. Let me know if you like that idea. thanks, b.turnage
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That doesn't look like it's the safest way to get to a patient trapped in that situation. You have a lot of weight hanging over the patient in this situation. If the floor pan tears, the sharp edge will pile-drive right down on the patient. And...if the car is a unibody, you have about a 50/50 chance of the floor pan tearing across the bend.
How about just cutting across the floor pan with sawzalls instead of leaving that much weight hanging over the patient? I've done that numerous times in training and a couple of times on calls, and it doesn't take but two or three minutes. It also doesn't require a wrecker, sinc there's no lift. A vehicle-mounted winch or even a come-along rigged to an engine's tow hook can move the amputated rear half of the car.
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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There's a variation similar to this with a couple of names- either the "oyster" or the "clam".
In either case, cut and b and c pillars whilst on its roof and then using rams or jack, lift the car up like a clam or oyster shell.
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