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Comment by Michael Dutton on June 30, 2009 at 9:23pm

And by the way we always run the truck and engines with 3 guys...4 guys is a luxury. Thats the way we've always done it.

Comment by Michael Dutton on June 30, 2009 at 9:21pm

Ok my first problem with this is the lack of communication onscene, It took a good 5 min before they actually new for sure they had a mayday. This should have been recognized immediately and all fireground communications should have been switched to a different tac channel and the mayday should have stayed on the original channel. It took way to long to account for all firefighters who were on interior attack. Another thing I immediately saw was the driver or spare personnel guy vent the window with out PPE. The PPE thing is covered so im gonna go somewhere else with this. HE CAUSED THE MAYDAY IN THE FIRST PLACE. He vented the unburned side and drew the fire that way instead of blowing it out the back side. He should have vented the charlie side, the fire was obviously on the back side when they pulled up and a proper 360 would have made that even more evident. Not knowing fire behavior and not training on RIT opps and communications is what is getting us killed. Lets learn from this and not repeat it.

Comment by Dennis Brown on December 26, 2008 at 10:45am

I agree with capt i been a truckie for 30 years and you never flow water when you got men in side trapped and the guy with out the ppe on he just did what he thought was right at that time to vent yes fire vented roof but heavey smoke coming out all windows so to get smoke out he did the right thing to get some kind of visabilitiy in there and with the man power that day was bad you never run a truck with 3 men and i dont know how many on the engines hope all the ff hurt in this fire recovered it a good learning video

Comment by Anthony on November 15, 2008 at 11:39pm

also the whole video and investigation can be found Loudoun County Fire & Rescue's website

Comment by Anthony on November 15, 2008 at 11:39pm

the technician without having PPE on made a new SOP to be formed that all technicians within loudoun county fire and rescue must have helmet, jacket and gloves on at all applicable incidents.

Comment by capt4021 on November 10, 2008 at 1:46pm

grambo never said they werent set up or lines werent pulled for exposures. But you never flow water into a structure that you have firefighters trapped. All your gonna do is push more heat down on them and possibly kill someone. Also with taking the windows I didnt understand that either but yet again. We dont know what was going on inside. Where the crews were or how or where they were operating although, the windows should have been taken closer the the area where the fire is so to not spread the fire.

Comment by Grambo on November 9, 2008 at 5:03pm

Hi great video,Hope all men / women are ok. I only have 2yrs experience but...Capt4021 the ladder truck/any exterior hoselines may have been handy for exposures..? maybe not you could be right,then the no bunker gear "Old school" thinking a common mistake. also not sure what breaking the windows out just beneath fire did besides fuel the fire(chimney) ,watch the before and after the window goes. Anyways just throughing out my ideas see what u guys think,trying to learn from this like they did.

Comment by FETC on November 7, 2008 at 3:46pm

Great video for command /control / accountability training. Alot of concern going offensive with fire through the roof on arrival in a lightweight constructed SF dwelling. I hope all brothers make a quick recovery.

Comment by capt4021 on November 6, 2008 at 5:14pm

Were you not paying attention to the radio traffic. There was still guys inside doing a search for the downed firefighters. You NEVER flow water into a structure from a deck gun or ladder pipe while guys are still inside.

Comment by robert roth on November 6, 2008 at 8:57am

we train with our ladder so that we can get water flowing asap. Having three people operate a ladder is crazy. That ladder took 20 + minutes to flow.