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Comment by ozzy on May 7, 2013 at 11:35am

Jerry Harper: I know this is 2 years old, but what was the outcome of this? I was told in NJ. Firefighters are allowed to use street legal airhorns (known as police horn). Just curious to see if there is any supporting documentation. I haven't been able to find anything yet.

This is the airhorn - http://www.strobesnmore.com/Carson-Street-Legal-Air-Horn-System.html

Comment by Cheyenne Nelson on September 4, 2011 at 11:50pm

How's the progress of this going so far?

Comment by jerry harper on February 26, 2011 at 8:03pm

RJ, what you said about your trucks going silent at intersections, and the reasoning behind it sounds like a good idea. Yet another thing I would add to my bill, would be to put into writing that 1st responders are not allowed to run red lights, and or stop signs. For some reason, even with just the blue lights people think that they are allowed to blow through the lights and stop signs, this is a very hazardous practice and should be dealt with harsh punishment, not only are they putting themselves in extreme danger but they are putting civilians in danger as well, and the irony is they are supposed to be as safe or safer than the rest of the public. Drive safe to the firehouse and not cause an accident on the way there.

Comment by RJ on February 25, 2011 at 10:57pm

Jerry, be advised, running code in Texas does not grant us any special priveledges to run through red lights or stop signs. Even in our trucks, if we come to a crowded intersection we will go silent, as department policy. We do this so that we don't panic anyone and cause civilians to themselves violate a light to get out of our way. In other words, we don't want to force anyone into the intersection to make room for us to get through. Even in a pumper, or your POV, if you run a light, or whatever...you probally won't be cited by the PD, but you can be sued in a civil matter. Sadly, as is the norm in this country now, fire departments (as well as PD) seem to be the a lucrative target for lawyers. Also, I'm not saying ALL departments allow code equipment in POV's. That's just the case in the few hundred miles of the area I'm familiar with. If you really want to pursue it though, contact your LOCAL state rep, and get his opinion.

As a note to Larry Lankfords post: Some of our members were travelling to training in their POV's, and had to pass through your fine state. Your super troopers were so anal about the lights, that they pulled us over and made us remove them before they let us proceed. We provided them with the proper credentials and everything, and of course we were showing Texas LP's on our vehicles. They said, take 'em off, or go to jail. Kinda ruins the relationship between brotherhoods. There we were, on the side of a busy freeway undoing all the work it took to install the damn things. We were pretty much a prime target for oncoming traffic whizzing by. Thank you, Oklahoma for such a warm welcome to a public servant from a neighboring state.

Comment by jerry harper on February 25, 2011 at 9:39pm

RJ. I like how things are run down in Texas. In my opinion the rest of the states should be following Texas in their laws regarding fire fighters. What I'm going to do is look up the laws down there and see what could be applicable here, and then when and if it gets to the comittee portion of the legislative process, they could eleminate portions of the Texas bill that would not be suitable for New Jersey. 99% of the companies here in New Jersey are very well oiled machines, and have personnel that are very responsible and mature. As i have stated before if this would to pass, like in Texas we would require EVOC training either annually or bi-annually, also the administering of the permits would be at the discretion of the fire chief.

Comment by Larry W. Lankford on February 21, 2011 at 9:35am

In Oklahoma, the attorney general of the state ruled that it was illegal for any privately owned vehicle to display emergency lights and sirens. It has to be a vehicle that is owned or leased by the department. We didn't have many guys doing it anyway, but it did make a difference here. We thought about some kind of lease agreement between the department and the firefighters but the paperwork was going to be a mess and we dropped it. We had never had any incidents of abuse in our area, but apparently somebody was, because of the ruling of the Attorney General of the state! Good luck with getting that passed. I think you are doing the right thing and I really think that it may work. If it does, I may want to get a copy of the bill to possibly present to our legilators down here! Keep up the good work and stay safe!

Comment by Wolfy Lang on February 21, 2011 at 9:04am

Living in North Carolina and being a Vol FF/EMT, and having been a FF in South Carolina, I have seen both sides of the argument. NC law allows for Chief Officers to have sirens in their POV's, while SC law allows for volunteers to run sirens with chief and insurance company approval. I would personally love to have a siren in place (I own 3, and when I'm done you will understand how insane this could get) and be able to use it.

I live in a semi rural area, just outside a city of around 30,000 people, and my district has two US highways in it. From my house to our main station is 2.9 miles, to our other station, just under 5 miles. Two turns out my driveway and I am in a straight shot to the main station, but to the other, its a bunch of twisty windy roads. As an EMT, I tend to go straight to the call if I dont have to pass the station to get there. EMS is generally in house most times, and they are usually 8 miles away if they are, the local hospital is about 10 miles from our district if that.

Would running sirens be wise, SAFE, and prudent in my case, or even of those around my district? Probably not. We dont run lights POV if we are within the city's limits, as I am told there is an ordinance against it, but I havent seen it, but the Officers tell me its so, so, we dont. When we provide mutual aid we do not go POV, we go in apparatus, so no need there.

Some counties around NC are extremely rural where it can take up to 30 minutes to get to the call. Some districts are in or near major population areas, such as Pineville NC is to Charlotte. I was 2.9 miles from the station in Pineville when I was with them, and traveled extremely busy streets to get to the station. There, it would have helped I believe.

In South Carolina, you pretty much a lot of the same type of area's, some close to heavy population, such as the Sandhills FD in Richland County in Columbia. There are times there that getting the volunteers to the station or the call it would

Comment by RJ on February 20, 2011 at 9:33pm

In addition to my previous posts, we do not allow probationary members to run code. After you've taken the EVOC, (always done in the rookie school), and after the mandatory six months, the probies are reviewed by the Officers, and are granted their full firefighter status. Only then can they run emergency equipment on their POV's. Insurance on POV's with emergency lighting is covered by our department coverage. If you're responding to a call, your vehicle IS an EMERGENCY vehicle.

Comment by RJ on February 20, 2011 at 9:26pm

I can't believe all the negativity about running sirens! We in Texas do indeed run lights and sirens on our POV's. Each member is required to take the EVOC class every two years at a minimum. Emergency Vehicle Operators Course). We are required to come to a complete stop at every stop sign or traffic light that is red. We can not exceed the speed limit in any given area by more than 10mph. We go completely silent in all active schools zones. In the fourteen years I've been in the department, we haven't had an accident with a member in his POV running code. If your argument that it doesn't slow response time is the best you got, well...I beg to differ. If your department has problems with abusing this tool, then those members need to find another way to serve the community. I guess it's all about professionalism and maturity. Here we are fortunate enough to be well supported by our community. Putting it bluntly...they understand us, and the job we do. I'm guessing the Texas Legislature does too.

Comment by Bekks on February 20, 2011 at 8:13pm

In Ontario Canada, we only got legal permission to have a green light (no siren) on our POV within what... the last 10 years or so... There was a little bit of time before that when the green lights were not restricted by law to fire (and two specific volunteer EMS responder organizations) and it was just "understood" that green was fire POV.

Before that, there was the old amber/white "VFF" light that was mounted on the front hood/quarter pannel on the outside of the car. Had a slow flashing bulb and it was just a courtesy light (as the green is today).

Can you imagine? Almost expect to see the horses pulling the old steamer eh?

I don't even use my horn to get people to pull over.

I just need to get to the hall or the scene. If you live so far from the hall that you need to run red lights and siren to the hall, maybe you need to live closer to the hall.
WITHOUT my green light I can get to our #2 hall in 3 minutes and #1 hall in 10 minutes... at the speed limit, stopping at stop signs and going with the flow of traffic. Nothing special.

In MY area, I just can't see justifying Red lights and sirens on POV's....

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